|
Author: Tom Henson
Date: 2008-05-27 01:16
I don't want to take this thread off on a tangent because I think it has been quite informative and helpful (it's not my thread anyway), but I did say he was sharp a few cents if tuned to A 444. If not, then it would have been more. So I don't see this as a dismissal of the known intonation issues at all which we have been discussing. I have already acknowledged that the Wurlitzer RB clarinets tend to play sharp in the left hand clarion notes. I don't see the need to repeat this, but I just have. What I did dismiss was that this sharpness would have detracted from his performance.
Personally, if I only had two clarinets I could pick from and one played sharp up high in the left hand clarion and the other sounded dull and flat down low, I would take the one that played sharp up high every time. Why, because the human ear will tolerate this better. Would I still try to improve the tuning, yes of course, given the opportunity.
If I only had a choice between two clarinets and one favored the lower partials and the other favored the higher ones, I would pick the one that favored the higher ones every time. The blend of using higher partials adds energy to the sound and this is the path that Fritz Wurlitzer took when he redesigned the bore to a smaller bore clarinet. What was taken away from the clarinet volume wise he added back in to the energy of the sound character with the blend of partials that he used to tune with.
And let’s not forget nodal locking. With a French bore clarinet, Jonathan Cohler explained on the Klarinet list that to master a French bore clarinet, you have to learn to voice each and every note. This is done by making many small, minute, and mostly invisible changes to your embouchure and mouth. Therefore, how much of the intonation on these instruments is actually flat response or the result of the manipulated sound? With nodal locking, you have very little bend to the note, so tuning of these instruments must be much more precise because they have so little flexibility of sound and this does make it harder to deal with intonation problems, granted. That is exactly why, for those that play on these clarinets, I have suggested to try as many mouthpieces as they can, try all the reeds they can find to first get what works well for them. Then they will be in a position to decide what types of intonation problems their particular clarinet has and know what needs to be fixed.
The only reason I posted the link was as an example of the sound character and how full of energy the sound was. I think it does that quite well. It is the sound that brings people to play on the Wurlitzer RB clarinets, along with some additional fingering possibilities like playing a forked Eb/Bb on the left hand. This can be very handy. Also the ability to trill a C#/G# using the right finger and the key extension is very helpful. Morrie Backun thought so much of the Wurlitzer key extension that he used it on his new clarinets by the way.
I was not trying to argue that it plays perfectly in tune. Yes, the thread did start out about intonation problems and I have offered some advice that I hope will help someone trying to learn how to play on these instruments. But if all you hear is a sharp B then you are missing the point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps that is my fault, and that is why I am trying to clarify again.
Also, as someone pointed out, Fuchs is not playing on a Wurlitzer RB clarinet, but on a full Ohler system. Thus, it is not really a valid point of comparison since our discussion is about Wurlitzer RB clarinets and not Ohler system. I have no knowledge of whether Ohler system by Wurlitzer tends to play sharp in the left hand clarion notes also. Perhaps someone that does have experience could comment. I would be quite interested to hear one way or the other.
But beyond that, it is the sound character of these clarinets that I find attractive. I have already acknowledged that they tend to play high in the left hand clarion register, so this is something that those that play on them learn to deal with. Struggle would not have been a word I would use to describe how I deal with it. You just learn new ways of fingering things. You try to find a mouthpiece and reed set up that works for you. That is what this thread is about. How do we, who play on these instruments, deal with the known intonation issues that appear to be common to them.
Finally, if you have tried different mouthpiece, reeds, and fingerings and still have intonation problems beyond what you can adjust, then by all means, send it back to Wurlitzer or some other competent firm like Leitner & Kraus to see if they can fix that. From this thread, Robert Taylor said that Wurlitzer was able to fix his tuning issues for the most part. Wurlitzer also worked on Micke's clarinet, but he was not happy with the result. They worked on mine and it is certainly better, but still sharp in the left hand clarion notes on my Bb. My scale is now more even than before, and that is certainly a step in the right direction.
We also have discussed that the A clarinets seem to have better intonation overall than their Bb's. I would also say their C and Eb has very good intonation as well, but I have only played on one example of a Wurlitzer RB C and Eb clarinet and thus this would not be conclusive.
I would use the word struggle to describe learning how to play on a German mouthpiece and reed coming from playing on a French system, no doubt. I did struggle, not having anyone who could show me and it was indeed difficult. As others have mentioned here before, it takes many hours working with this system to begin to master it coming from playing on a French bore system. If I was from Germany or some other country that played on these instruments and started on them in the beginning, I doubt I would consider it a struggle. But with the goal that I have to take full advantage of the unique sound qualities of the German RB bore, it has been worth all the work to me. It may not be worth the effort to others, and I have already suggested that unless you are completely dedicated to learn this system you would be better off just to stay with the French bore.
I also want to say that I do not feel that the German RB system is necessarily a better system than the French. Different, indeed, but I am not trying to say one is better than the other. Each system has its good things and bad. You learn to deal with them as best you can and repair what you can’t. I just happen to love the way they sound and I am willing to put in the hours to learn how to play them.
Lastly, I think the myth of the German RB clarinets not blending with French clarinets has been debunked by enough people here. If you still don’t agree, check out this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPfqgV7K74
I have the CD and it is wonderful. Sabine Meyer playing on a 1970’s Herbert Wurlitzer full Ohler system and Julian Bliss playing on the new Leblanc/Backun clarinet. By the way, I think I hear some of Julian’s high notes a little sharp on this video.
Tom Henson
|
|
|
Menendez |
2008-01-28 23:29 |
|
Iceland clarinet |
2008-01-28 23:58 |
|
skygardener |
2008-01-29 02:55 |
|
Menendez |
2008-01-29 10:35 |
|
crnichols |
2008-01-29 03:17 |
|
Chris P |
2008-01-29 03:30 |
|
RodRubber |
2008-01-29 03:33 |
|
skygardener |
2008-01-29 06:57 |
|
kenb |
2008-01-29 12:16 |
|
skygardener |
2008-01-29 13:17 |
|
Menendez |
2008-01-29 15:56 |
|
Morrie Backun |
2008-01-29 17:02 |
|
Menendez |
2008-01-31 13:11 |
|
Menendez |
2008-01-31 13:26 |
|
Tony Pay |
2008-01-29 17:45 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-01-29 17:47 |
|
kenb |
2008-01-31 18:45 |
|
donald |
2008-02-01 17:52 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-02-28 17:09 |
|
Nitram |
2011-08-17 04:15 |
|
MarlboroughMan |
2011-08-17 15:10 |
|
DavidBlumberg |
2011-08-17 15:18 |
|
Nitram |
2011-08-18 02:24 |
|
Nitram |
2011-08-18 02:33 |
|
MarlboroughMan |
2011-08-18 14:53 |
|
Nitram |
2011-12-05 08:56 |
|
pkluttik |
2014-08-22 01:41 |
|
Micke |
2008-03-18 11:53 |
|
rtaylor |
2008-04-08 21:17 |
|
kenb |
2008-04-09 12:03 |
|
rtaylor |
2008-04-09 13:01 |
|
Micke Isotalo |
2008-04-09 21:58 |
|
rtaylor |
2008-04-10 20:58 |
|
kenb |
2008-04-10 10:16 |
|
Micke Isotalo |
2008-04-29 09:15 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-22 21:12 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-05-23 06:38 |
|
Menendez |
2008-05-23 15:23 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-24 05:20 |
|
Jeroen |
2009-06-12 21:30 |
|
Menendez |
2012-01-02 11:18 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-05-24 15:32 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-24 18:39 |
|
pabstboy |
2008-05-25 04:58 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-05-25 14:35 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-25 15:42 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-25 16:22 |
|
clarnibass |
2008-05-25 17:15 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-25 21:10 |
|
Micke Isotalo |
2008-05-25 22:14 |
|
Menendez |
2008-05-25 23:28 |
|
rtaylor |
2008-05-27 15:26 |
|
Menendez |
2008-05-25 22:45 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-05-26 07:20 |
|
Menendez |
2008-05-26 12:47 |
|
Menendez |
2008-05-26 13:06 |
|
Menendez |
2008-05-26 13:06 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-05-26 15:36 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-26 16:21 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-05-26 21:37 |
|
J. J. |
2008-05-26 22:39 |
    |
Re: Problems with intonation in Wurlitzer Reform Boehm new |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-27 01:16 |
|
rtaylor |
2008-05-27 19:59 |
|
rtaylor |
2008-05-27 20:01 |
|
Menendez |
2008-12-31 13:32 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-05-27 06:51 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-27 19:30 |
|
Geten |
2023-04-12 14:11 |
|
D Dow |
2008-05-28 13:10 |
|
kenb |
2008-05-28 21:18 |
|
rtaylor |
2008-05-28 21:31 |
|
Iceland clarinet |
2008-12-31 14:29 |
|
Lam |
2009-01-04 12:42 |
|
skygardener |
2009-01-04 17:56 |
|
Lam |
2009-01-05 12:26 |
|
Menendez |
2009-01-05 13:55 |
|
Tom Henson |
2009-01-07 16:51 |
|
rtaylor |
2009-01-07 17:39 |
|
Micke Isotalo |
2009-01-07 20:11 |
|
rtaylor |
2009-01-07 20:54 |
|
Tom Henson |
2009-01-07 21:57 |
|
Menendez |
2009-01-07 21:34 |
|
Lam |
2009-01-08 13:17 |
|
Menendez |
2009-01-09 13:54 |
|
Tom Henson |
2009-01-10 01:45 |
|
Fraeulein Klarinette |
2009-06-13 17:47 |
|
skygardener |
2009-06-13 18:11 |
|
oliver sudden |
2009-06-13 21:07 |
|
skygardener |
2009-06-14 01:01 |
|
Fraeulein Klarinette |
2009-06-14 06:07 |
|
oliver sudden |
2009-06-14 09:07 |
|
Jeroen |
2009-06-14 10:02 |
|
Mark Charette |
2009-06-14 14:38 |
|
aero145 |
2009-06-14 10:25 |
|
skygardener |
2009-06-14 11:02 |
|
oliver sudden |
2009-06-14 13:28 |
|
aero145 |
2009-06-14 13:45 |
|
oliver sudden |
2009-06-14 15:34 |
|
Lam |
2009-06-14 15:58 |
|
Lam |
2009-06-14 16:15 |
|
Fraeulein Klarinette |
2009-06-14 16:48 |
|
aero145 |
2009-06-14 17:05 |
|
Fraeulein Klarinette |
2009-06-14 17:11 |
|
Lam |
2009-06-14 17:40 |
|
aero145 |
2009-06-14 17:43 |
|
Menendez |
2009-06-14 18:01 |
|
aero145 |
2009-06-14 18:22 |
|
Jeroen |
2009-06-14 19:26 |
|
Mark Charette |
2009-06-14 20:24 |
|
Menendez |
2009-06-14 20:40 |
|
Jeroen |
2009-06-14 21:07 |
|
skygardener |
2009-06-14 22:57 |
|
oliver sudden |
2009-06-15 17:52 |
|
aero145 |
2009-06-15 18:31 |
|
DavidBlumberg |
2011-08-17 14:07 |
|
Menendez |
2011-12-06 01:50 |
|
DavidBlumberg |
2011-12-06 02:26 |
|
MarlboroughMan |
2011-08-17 15:11 |
|
rtaylor |
2011-08-17 18:32 |
|
MarlboroughMan |
2011-08-18 14:55 |
|
Menendez |
2011-12-06 01:06 |
|
DavidBlumberg |
2011-12-06 02:29 |
|
Menendez |
2011-12-06 12:08 |
|
Menendez |
2011-12-06 13:13 |
|
Lam |
2011-12-29 10:04 |
|
Jeroen |
2011-12-29 10:40 |
|
Lam |
2011-12-29 11:43 |
|
Jeroen |
2011-12-29 13:36 |
|
Liquorice |
2012-01-02 14:37 |
|
Lam |
2012-01-05 14:53 |
|
Menendez |
2012-01-08 14:42 |
|
MarlboroughMan |
2012-01-08 15:25 |
|
cigleris |
2012-01-08 23:05 |
|
donald |
2014-08-23 02:15 |
The Clarinet BBoard
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
