|
Author: Tom Henson
Date: 2008-05-22 21:12
I am going to reopen this thread because I have more observations that may prove helpful to those discussing this issue.
I sent my set of Wurlitzer model 185 clarinets for a full overhaul and to repair some damaged keys on my A clarinet. I received them back last week. One of the things that I asked them to work on was the tuning on my Bb. It had the same issue of wide 12th's as has been discussed in this message thread. I don't think mine was any worse or better than what others have posted.
I know that I had earlier remarked about Wurlitzer not having the best luck in addressing the tuning issues on the Reform Boehm clarinets, but I felt as long as I had to have some repair work done by them it was only fair that I would give them a chance to see if they could make any improvement to the tuning issue. I am happy to report that they did make some quantifiable improvement to the tuning on my Bb. But I also discovered something that I think may be affecting the tuning of these clarinets in general and it has nothing to do with the clarinets. Below is an experiment that I performed last night over a 3 hour test session on the Bb. I think it brings to light where much of the tuning problems lie and would be interested to see if anyone else has tested to this extent. I tested quite a few mouthpieces I have from various makers and here is what I found.
The single biggest influence to the tuning was the mouthpiece which accounted for as much as 20-25 cents flat or sharp just by changing the mouthpiece. This was very evident in the throat tones because these are the notes closest to the mouthpiece. As you get progressively farther away from the mouthpiece, the tuning anomalies are reduced. No doubt, the inner bore of the mouthpiece and it's design is what is influencing this outcome. Some mouthpieces simply work better with the Wurlitzer bore than others.
The second biggest influence was the reed, which accounted for the other 10 cents difference. When combined, I was able to change the tuning either flat or sharp by as much as 35 cents just by changing the mouthpiece/reed combination, a tremendous amount.
The biggest effect of changing the mouthpiece/reed combination was in the lower register which was flat, but particularly in the throat tones. The upper register was not affected to the same degree, as I still had sharpness when playing above the middle G, but I was now able to manage it enough to get it close to being in tune, depending on which mouthpiece and reed I used. It may be possible that work on the barrels at this point may further mitigate the sharpness in the clarion register.
I know that Micke said he was not sure Wurlitzer had indeed done any tuning work on his Bb and could not tell any real difference. The way that I know they did do tuning work on my Bb clarinet is the fact that the volume and timber from note to note seems to be more even than before I had them work on it. I had a couple of notes before that were louder than others and this has now been fixed. I also examined the tone hole chimneys with a lighted magnifying glass and saw some minor changes. The result is my scale is now much more even in every way. The left hand to the right hand transition is very even compared to before when I had a slight break between the two.
This evenness tends to trick the ear into hearing that the clarinet is playing better in tune until you check it with an electronic tuner (unless you have perfect pitch). This also confirms my thinking that Wurlitzer tends to tune in favor of the timber or sound of the note vs. the actual interval tuning. Given a choice between sound/timber and interval, they will choose the sound. By the way, I did verify that my Korg tuner was calibrated correctly against a test tone generated from another electronic tuner that I have. I ruled out any possibility that my tuner was defective.
I tested the following mouthpieces and checked carefully the tuning characteristics for each one:
Viotto - I have two N1+2
Leitner & Kraus - F10
Leitner & Kraus - V100 (similar to N1 facing)
Wurlitzer - N1 rubber
Wurlitzer - P4 - one rubber and two acrylic
Reeds:
Pflammer-Sinus model D, strength # 3.
I first checked all of the above mouthpieces using a single barrel just to get a comparison and baseline. Once I had some tuning figures for this one barrel, I then compared that to the other two barrels that I have to see if I saw any similarities or patterns.
I think below will be an eye opener and confirm my statement that the mouthpiece appears to be the single biggest factor to affect the tuning characteristics of the Wurlitzer Reform Boehm clarinets.
Viotto - N1+2:
I love the sound that these mouthpieces make overall. Sound of the throat tones was very clear, focused and full. However, both of my N1+2 also produced flat throat tones which lead to the worst tuning characteristics over all. These two mouthpieces had flatness in the throat tones as much as 35 cents. They were equally as sharp in the upper register as you go up the scale.
Low C without register key showed to be in tune at A440. This varied by the same amount for each barrel which proved that the mouthpiece was consistently tuning the same, except that each barrel was tuned to A440, A442, and A 444.
Open G showed to be about 20-30 cents flat, depending on the strength of the reed used. The softer, the flatter.
Throat Bb was flat about 35 cents. Then B natural was back in tune.
Leitner & Kraus - F10:
The bore of this mouthpiece works very well with my L&K clarinets. The bore of my L&K clarinets should be very close to a Wurlitzer clarinet made up until 1990 when Herr Leitner and Herr Kraus left Wurlitzer. This mouthpiece may work well with the older bore design of Wurlitzer Reform Boehm because of this. Not sure what the tip opening on this mouthpiece is.
Sporadic tuning issues. Some groupings of notes played well in tune and some did not. The sound from one group to another changed enough that I would not use this mouthpiece with my Wurlitzer clarinets. This may an example of how each manufacturer's mouthpiece is really designed to be used with just their instruments for best results.
Leitner & Kraus V100:
Pretty much the same as above, but this did sound better overall. Still not ideal though the tuning anomalies were not as bad as with the Viotto mouthpieces. Same problem with some groups of notes sounding really good and some weak and not clear. Tuning was within 20 cents overall.
Wurlitzer N1 Rubber:
Excellent sound. Perhaps the best sounding mouthpiece of all that I tested with the Wurlitzer clarinets. I was not a big fan of this facing because it is so close at 1.00mm. It is more reed picky than the other mouthpieces, but played very well with the right reed.
Tuning was generally good with the throat tones only flat within a 10 cent range. With the right reed I could get this down to about 5 cents. Still sharp in the upper register left hand about 20 cents.
This mouthpiece alone began to convince me that the tuning issues I had were not really all the fault of the clarinet.
Wurlitzer P4, rubber & acrylic:
I think this has a tip opening of only .95mm, but it plays like it has a more open tip. This is probably because the facing is shorter than on the N1 and thus the reed has more vibration. This facing works very well with the Sinus model D # 3 reed. An ideal combination.
This was the best mouthpiece of all of them, regardless if it was made of rubber or acrylic. I was able to get the entire lower register to play within 5 cents from bottom to top. Low G to open G, I could peg the tuner to be perfectly in tune just using my embouchure alone.
Still had sharpness in the upper register starting at G. Clarion C was about 15 cents sharp, but I was able to get it close using fingerings and embouchure changes.
With this mouthpiece, all barrels played consistently the same way and I see no reason this instrument would not compare favorably to any French system for tuning. It may be possible to gain more improvement by having barrel work done to fine tune it which would put this clarinet in very good tuning.
Finally, I want to emphasize that the scale of my Bb clarinet is improved and now has a very even sound and volume wise. This will make it easier to blend with other clarinets in a section in my opinion. I would not hesitate to use this clarinet in either an ensemble or solo situation with this P4 mouthpiece.
My conclusion is that the mouthpiece appears to have the single biggest impact on the tuning of the Wurlitzer Reform Boehm clarinets. If you consider that the closer you get to the mouthpiece the greater the anomaly and the farther away you get the less problem you have. This appears to remain consistent which leads me to believe that the clarinet itself is not the problem now.
There is no doubt that my Bb did have some tuning issues that were corrected by the technician. But, I have to conclude that much of the problem resulted from a mouthpiece/reed mis-match to the bore. Someone else commented, wisely, that it is probably best to use the mouthpiece made by the manufacturer, but I do believe that an after market one could work equally as well, if the maker understands the uniqueness of the bore.
By the way, the Viotto mouthpieces do exhibit the same flatness problems on my Leitner & Krauss clarinets, but to a much less degree, being about 10 cents which can be controlled by barrel, reed, and embouchure.
I hope that this adds valid information to this important discussion, as I do sincerely love the sound that these Wurlitzer clarinets make.
Tom Henson
|
|
|
Menendez |
2008-01-28 23:29 |
|
Iceland clarinet |
2008-01-28 23:58 |
|
skygardener |
2008-01-29 02:55 |
|
Menendez |
2008-01-29 10:35 |
|
crnichols |
2008-01-29 03:17 |
|
Chris P |
2008-01-29 03:30 |
|
RodRubber |
2008-01-29 03:33 |
|
skygardener |
2008-01-29 06:57 |
|
kenb |
2008-01-29 12:16 |
|
skygardener |
2008-01-29 13:17 |
|
Menendez |
2008-01-29 15:56 |
|
Morrie Backun |
2008-01-29 17:02 |
|
Menendez |
2008-01-31 13:11 |
|
Menendez |
2008-01-31 13:26 |
|
Tony Pay |
2008-01-29 17:45 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-01-29 17:47 |
|
kenb |
2008-01-31 18:45 |
|
donald |
2008-02-01 17:52 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-02-28 17:09 |
|
Nitram |
2011-08-17 04:15 |
|
MarlboroughMan |
2011-08-17 15:10 |
|
DavidBlumberg |
2011-08-17 15:18 |
|
Nitram |
2011-08-18 02:24 |
|
Nitram |
2011-08-18 02:33 |
|
MarlboroughMan |
2011-08-18 14:53 |
|
Nitram |
2011-12-05 08:56 |
|
pkluttik |
2014-08-22 01:41 |
|
Micke |
2008-03-18 11:53 |
|
rtaylor |
2008-04-08 21:17 |
|
kenb |
2008-04-09 12:03 |
|
rtaylor |
2008-04-09 13:01 |
|
Micke Isotalo |
2008-04-09 21:58 |
|
rtaylor |
2008-04-10 20:58 |
|
kenb |
2008-04-10 10:16 |
|
Micke Isotalo |
2008-04-29 09:15 |
    |
Re: Problems with intonation in Wurlitzer Reform Boehm new |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-22 21:12 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-05-23 06:38 |
|
Menendez |
2008-05-23 15:23 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-24 05:20 |
|
Jeroen |
2009-06-12 21:30 |
|
Menendez |
2012-01-02 11:18 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-05-24 15:32 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-24 18:39 |
|
pabstboy |
2008-05-25 04:58 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-05-25 14:35 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-25 15:42 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-25 16:22 |
|
clarnibass |
2008-05-25 17:15 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-25 21:10 |
|
Micke Isotalo |
2008-05-25 22:14 |
|
Menendez |
2008-05-25 23:28 |
|
rtaylor |
2008-05-27 15:26 |
|
Menendez |
2008-05-25 22:45 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-05-26 07:20 |
|
Menendez |
2008-05-26 12:47 |
|
Menendez |
2008-05-26 13:06 |
|
Menendez |
2008-05-26 13:06 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-05-26 15:36 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-26 16:21 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-05-26 21:37 |
|
J. J. |
2008-05-26 22:39 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-27 01:16 |
|
rtaylor |
2008-05-27 19:59 |
|
rtaylor |
2008-05-27 20:01 |
|
Menendez |
2008-12-31 13:32 |
|
Liquorice |
2008-05-27 06:51 |
|
Tom Henson |
2008-05-27 19:30 |
|
Geten |
2023-04-12 14:11 |
|
D Dow |
2008-05-28 13:10 |
|
kenb |
2008-05-28 21:18 |
|
rtaylor |
2008-05-28 21:31 |
|
Iceland clarinet |
2008-12-31 14:29 |
|
Lam |
2009-01-04 12:42 |
|
skygardener |
2009-01-04 17:56 |
|
Lam |
2009-01-05 12:26 |
|
Menendez |
2009-01-05 13:55 |
|
Tom Henson |
2009-01-07 16:51 |
|
rtaylor |
2009-01-07 17:39 |
|
Micke Isotalo |
2009-01-07 20:11 |
|
rtaylor |
2009-01-07 20:54 |
|
Tom Henson |
2009-01-07 21:57 |
|
Menendez |
2009-01-07 21:34 |
|
Lam |
2009-01-08 13:17 |
|
Menendez |
2009-01-09 13:54 |
|
Tom Henson |
2009-01-10 01:45 |
|
Fraeulein Klarinette |
2009-06-13 17:47 |
|
skygardener |
2009-06-13 18:11 |
|
oliver sudden |
2009-06-13 21:07 |
|
skygardener |
2009-06-14 01:01 |
|
Fraeulein Klarinette |
2009-06-14 06:07 |
|
oliver sudden |
2009-06-14 09:07 |
|
Jeroen |
2009-06-14 10:02 |
|
Mark Charette |
2009-06-14 14:38 |
|
aero145 |
2009-06-14 10:25 |
|
skygardener |
2009-06-14 11:02 |
|
oliver sudden |
2009-06-14 13:28 |
|
aero145 |
2009-06-14 13:45 |
|
oliver sudden |
2009-06-14 15:34 |
|
Lam |
2009-06-14 15:58 |
|
Lam |
2009-06-14 16:15 |
|
Fraeulein Klarinette |
2009-06-14 16:48 |
|
aero145 |
2009-06-14 17:05 |
|
Fraeulein Klarinette |
2009-06-14 17:11 |
|
Lam |
2009-06-14 17:40 |
|
aero145 |
2009-06-14 17:43 |
|
Menendez |
2009-06-14 18:01 |
|
aero145 |
2009-06-14 18:22 |
|
Jeroen |
2009-06-14 19:26 |
|
Mark Charette |
2009-06-14 20:24 |
|
Menendez |
2009-06-14 20:40 |
|
Jeroen |
2009-06-14 21:07 |
|
skygardener |
2009-06-14 22:57 |
|
oliver sudden |
2009-06-15 17:52 |
|
aero145 |
2009-06-15 18:31 |
|
DavidBlumberg |
2011-08-17 14:07 |
|
Menendez |
2011-12-06 01:50 |
|
DavidBlumberg |
2011-12-06 02:26 |
|
MarlboroughMan |
2011-08-17 15:11 |
|
rtaylor |
2011-08-17 18:32 |
|
MarlboroughMan |
2011-08-18 14:55 |
|
Menendez |
2011-12-06 01:06 |
|
DavidBlumberg |
2011-12-06 02:29 |
|
Menendez |
2011-12-06 12:08 |
|
Menendez |
2011-12-06 13:13 |
|
Lam |
2011-12-29 10:04 |
|
Jeroen |
2011-12-29 10:40 |
|
Lam |
2011-12-29 11:43 |
|
Jeroen |
2011-12-29 13:36 |
|
Liquorice |
2012-01-02 14:37 |
|
Lam |
2012-01-05 14:53 |
|
Menendez |
2012-01-08 14:42 |
|
MarlboroughMan |
2012-01-08 15:25 |
|
cigleris |
2012-01-08 23:05 |
|
donald |
2014-08-23 02:15 |
The Clarinet BBoard
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
