 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Robyn
Date: 2008-03-01 23:14
What is the youngest you would start a person learning clarinet?
I was recently asked to teach a 2nd grader how to play the clarinet. I told them to wait at least a year or two, but they seemed really anxious to start. I still don't think a 2nd grader is physically ready for the clarinet, but when might she be ready?
(starting on Eb is not an option in this case)
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Author: butterflymusic
Date: 2008-03-02 01:40
If they're mature enough and big enough, why not? The Suzuki Violin method started kids younger than that.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-03-02 06:43
When I was about six years old I went to one conservatorium and said I wanted to play clarinet. They said I have to wait until I'm nine years old so I cried like a little baby and went home....
Then we tried another place and the teacher there gave me some rhythm tests (she sang and I needed to repeat). She decided it was ok to start clarinet, and I started with an Eb clarinet, at the same time as 2nd grade. Depending on when the kid was born, she may be about six month to a year older than I was when I started.
I'm really glad I didn't compromise and chose a different instrument which they suggested in the first place. I already knew then and now I am even more sure that would have been a big mistake. I thank my teacher that she agreed to take me at that age. I hope you will not cause a kid to make a mistake they (or you) will regret, in case she is lke me and have always known clarinet is what I want.
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-03-02 07:04
I started my neice when she was 8. she was mature enough and big enough. I spent a couple years teaching her the basics but i'm not a teacher so could do no more than that. she is now 16 and still playing.
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Author: D
Date: 2008-03-02 07:36
There is a lot that can be taught that doesn't involve the instrument in the mouth. Loads of the music theory, interpretation, playing duets, tuning, mimicry, composition, improvisation etc could be included in those early lessons and the actual time with the instrument in the mouth thus lessened while the body grows enough to cope with longer playing times. Could end up with a very very good student early on even with relatively little playing time. I guess the key physical things to be concerned about are:
--- if the fingers are fat enough to cover the holes - potential to solve this with an adapted clarinet.
---the development of the mouth. It is very important that the teeth are up to the job of supporting that mouth structure and shape needed for correct playing. It might be worth spending some time with a good dentist to discuss the ways that playing may affect the mouth and the ways this might be mitigated. Vital that said child understands and develops muscle strength rather than relying on bone and teeth. Children's bones distort very easily.
---if the hands are big enough to reach all the keys properly without straining the right thumb and causing permanent tendon damage.
--if the lungs are mature enough to provide enough air pressure.
I would say proceed, but with caution. Double bass for a very small child is clearly daft as they can't reach the instrument, a ladder would be needed! And they'd never be able to move the thing without help. Don't see why the clarinet should be impossible though. There are certainly very small flutes with curved heads, shorter reach keywork and slightly small range as a consequence, available for small children. They can use these for up to grade 3 ABRSM I think. And as said above by other posters, there are various small clarinets around which may be useful.
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-03-02 08:33
Julian Bliss started at four.
Michael Ham Kim at seven.
I don't think either were "big for their age".
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-03-02 13:40
I started a 7 or 8 year old a while back, and she is a small girl for her age (she's now 13 or 14 and doesn't take private lessons any more). This girl was very motivated at the time to spend time with me personally, due to a social setting. It was a "I want to be like Katrina" situation, but she could cover the holes on a Vito and reach almost all of the keys, so I said I would teach her. I had gone over to her house and we double checked all of the size stuff before her folks ordered her a clarinet. Front teeth were in, so mouth wasn't an issue.
I think if the kid is motivated (by whatever is motivating them) that it's a fine time to start them. This girl's attention span was excellent and she is very very bright. It all depends on the kid though!
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2008-03-02 13:42
According to the forward in Peter Hadcock's excerpt book, he started at a young age by playing on an Eb clarinet studying with William Stubbins.
I bought a KinderClarinet for my daughter but found the quality of the instrument poor and I think that any small instrument should be complete - not missing any keys that are necessary for learning trills, alternate fingerings, etc.
I would recommend you get a plastic Eb that is light in weight and also employ a neck strap to alleviate the weight of the instrument causing pain on the thumb of the right hand.
You may want to use a really weak Legere Eb reed so that you do not have to deal with reed issues until the student is more advanced.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-03-02 14:16
When I went to school, students started band instruments in 4th grade, ands some of the string players began a year earlier in the 3rd grade. I think it really depends on the physical development of the child and whether s/ge can physically reach the keys and cover the tone holes and the like.
An eefer is one option. Finding a clarinet with p;plateau keys might be another one. If using a standard Bb, a neck strap would be a good idea.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2008-03-02 14:16)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-03-02 15:07
I was at a children's music fair today (actually it's the municipal music school that had an information day about various instruments, where children could attend workshops and the like.)
Anyhow, what they had in the wind dept were Guntram Wolf's novice instruments, notably simplified Oboes and Clarinets. The idea is to teach the correct embouchure but keep the recorder-like fingering until the hands are compatible with a real instrument (not to mention the lower maintenance cost). One of the people demonstrated their C1 clarinet, and the sound was impressive. Pitched in C which makes for a rich repertoire.
(no affiliation whatsoever)
--
Ben
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2008-03-02 16:51
I have been teaching beginners for 20 years. I prefer that they be at least 9 when they start although I will start them earlier if their RH ring finger is big enough to cover the hole and they seem physically and intellectually mature for their age. Of course there are kids who will benefit from an earlier start but most kids will become very frustrated when they cannot comfortably play notes with their RH little finger. It is nearly impossible to know which kid will give up in frustration and which will persevere when things become difficult. I also think that kids who start earlier have more pain and other hand problems. I also don't like the idea of starting on eefer-most student eefers are stuffy and hard to blow especially for a beginner.
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Author: Robyn
Date: 2008-03-02 19:12
Thanks for all your thoughts. In answer to one of the questions, Eb is not an option because of the cost. The history on this is that the girl tried violin a year or two ago and never got into it. Her mom is reluctant to spend a bunch of money on a new clarinet until she knows her daughter is going to stick with it, and there are no Eb clarinets for rent around here.
I may talk to the mom about her daughter starting in the fall, when she is in 3rd grade. I think she has some maturing to do yet, both physically and mentally.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-03-02 19:48
Yep, give'em time.
My youngest daughter (then 6yo) wanted to play drums, and the teacher said he'd only start with 10 year olds because of muscle coordination an all that. Meanwhile (she's now 8) she found out that she really loves to sing and settled on (acoustical) guitar...
--
Ben
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-03-02 20:46
For all the teacher out there: What would you do if you had a young student for a year and then they begin to take their adult two upper front teath ? My old teacher had student like this and it was just pain in the ass.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-03-02 21:56
Two different questions:
1. The youngest student I would teach.....9
2. The youngest I would start a person learning clarinet.....as soon as they show an interest.
Bob Draznik
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-03-02 23:37
Robyn,
Because of price, interest, all that, why not start her on recorder?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-03-03 01:08
The student can certainly start now, but very soon there will be the period of a year (many months at least) when the teeth start coming out on top - as in no front teeth.
That happens around 7. So you will have a student who really can't play for several months. Waiting until the top teeth come in can be a good thing.
For the time before that the Lyons Clarinet is also pretty good as it is quite lightweight and though there are modified key arrangement (similar to the kinder clarinet which leaves out some of the doubled alternative fingerings) it works just fine for that age.
I wouldn't start a clarinetist before the teeth come in if they are going to have to play a regular Bb clarinet.
There are some clarinet antics on utube with a 6 yr old clarinetist "louis" that Michele Gingras teaches - I think he is playing an Eb Clarinet there.
Personally I prefer to start players when they are in the middle of 3rd grade.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: monzamess
Date: 2008-03-03 13:37
My 3-yr-old wants to be like daddy. I let her "play" my Eb clarinet and sopranino sax. She has enough attention span to put her hands on the keys and try to form an embouchure, but then she'll honk a couple of notes and she's done. I don't push her, just try to support her curiosity.
I tried to start her on a recorder--easier to play, not a huge loss if it breaks--but it's hard to get her to treat it as more than a toy. With the "real" instruments she focuses a little better, at least for a 3-yr-old.
The only useful thing I can add to this conversation is: The Eb clarinet was $70 new on eBay--it's a cheap plastic thing you'd call a CSO, but it plays in tune and sounds OK to me. I don't see any currently available from the place I bought mine but maybe more will show up.
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Author: rob v.
Date: 2008-03-03 20:27
D wrote "Loads of the music theory, interpretation, playing duets, tuning, mimicry, composition, improvisation etc could be included in those early lessons and the actual time with the instrument in the mouth thus lessened while the body grows enough to cope with longer playing times."
mimicry? sorry, what is this...
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Author: D
Date: 2008-03-04 18:08
Sorry Rob, not really sure what you are getting at. I was trying to say that heavily weighting the lessons away from playing and towards other musical skills can be a way to avoid injuring a student who is still growing into the instrument. Is that clearer?
D
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Author: clariniano
Date: 2008-03-04 19:25
Why not have them learn the piano? Here to graduate with a performer’s degree from the Royal Conservatory of Music (Toronto) you need to pass a Grade 6 piano exam, for the teacher’s certificate you need Grade 8 piano. Music theory is all based on the piano. I’ve found that my piano training has helped me on clarinet (however, I play piano to a Grade 7 level), especially in terms of learning the more challenging scales, diminished and dominant 7ths because I can visualize them from practicing them on the piano for my piano exams. It has also helped me with learning harmony and counterpoint. Some universities have a minimum piano requirement, too.
The youngest I generally accept clarinet students is 9 years old, though have known 8 year olds who were ready and 10 year olds who were not. With piano I teach students who start at not-quite four (but we do a lot of exploration of basic music concepts, and a lot of music games and Dalcroze-type exercises with my ever-growing set of percussion instruments). And I encourage my clarinet students past the Grade 4 level to learn the piano if they haven’t started or quit before they reached the required level, so that they aren’t forced to cram in the theory and piano requirements in the higher grades, especially if they are planning to study music after high school.)
Meri
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Author: rob v.
Date: 2008-03-04 23:37
D wrote: Sorry Rob, not really sure what you are getting at. I was trying to say that heavily weighting the lessons away from playing and towards other musical skills can be a way to avoid injuring a student who is still growing into the instrument. Is that clearer?
D
I wasn't familiar with the word mimicry, but after a google search of the word, I did. I was thinking mimi-cry instead of mimic-ry.
Sorry...
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Author: D
Date: 2008-03-07 06:13
no worries. sorry I didn't understand the question.
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Author: alpharettablue
Date: 2008-03-08 17:46
My daughter was 8 when she started clarinet. Her teacher was reluctant, but let her try because she had a good attention span, and very long fingers and she REALLY wanted to play.
We have never been sorry, she is an excellent high school clarinetist now.
The only thing I would warn is not to push too hard. There were times when she was very interested and times when she was not. It's hard to be patient and follow the whims of a 3rd or fourth grader. But in the long run it became HER music. And that is a better gift than having the hottest 4th grade musician on the block.
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Author: Clari9801SC
Date: 2008-03-15 16:35
I started on the wooden Soprano recorder when I was seven. My parents and I tried the flute first. But my fingers were not long enough and I did not
have enough lung capacity yet. As we all know, children's development is in their own timing. Each individual will be different. I have played recorder for a good while. When I started clarinet, I was 15 and had enough attention span and my fingers had finally grown long enough to where I could reach the keys. My teachers would have my reach with my r.h. pinky as far as I could to strech the muscle. It worked! So, be patient with each student and music is really good for those with ADD too!
"And in our living and in our dying and in our growing up that's the way we were" Thornton Wilder, Our Town
"If music be the food of love, play on" Shakespeare
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