 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: flady lady
Date: 2007-06-29 04:19
I am high school student looking to play clarinet as a job. Would you suggest buying Backun Bells? I have heard they make your sound great.
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-06-29 04:23
I would say nothing improves your sound more than making sure your embouchure/setup/clarinet are all well. And it doesn't hurt to have a private teacher, it hurts if you don't I think =] I'm in high school and I won't shell out money for those custom things yet until i completely outgrow the resources that I have now and I still can make alot of progress without shelling out lots of money on fancy equipment.
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Author: David Pozlyckie
Date: 2007-06-29 04:28
I think they make the clarinet sound really really really dark and they are soooo good looking. They are very popular among the "pro" league players. I think that almost everyone in the major orchestras use them.
Post Edited (2007-06-29 04:29)
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2007-06-29 04:52
David,
you said -
"They are very popular among the "pro" league players. I think that almost everyone in the major orchestras use them."
I think you better check that again,
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-06-29 06:01
there are many pros that are not into the Backun sound. They are not a 'must'. Practice is a must.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-06-29 06:09
Well you are still in school. i think you need to give it more time to consider your vocation as a musician. right now it might seem like a great career, but you have to remember that a bell will not put you in the league of professionals, it is your skill that you should be focusing on. if you already have a good setup and you have extra dough, give backun products a shot.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2007-06-29 08:06
In high school? Not unless you're uber-hardcore (private lessons, practicing 3+ hours/day, performing solo concerts) and have money to throw around.
There's a time for expensive equipment upgrades. That time is later than high school.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: CPW
Date: 2007-06-29 13:29
By all means.
Shady lady* should buy one of each flavor, and matching barrels to go with them.
Then, she should go to the "mouthpiece and barrel link" on this page http://test.woodwind.org/Sponsors/Mouthpieces/ and buy each type from each purveyor (Pyne, Fobes, Segal, Grabner, etc) . Get one in each type of wood or delrin or PVC and then report back her findings.
Disclaimer. I get a huge finders fee ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) from all those custom makers.
Oh, and wait. There is more! A free Ginzu knife from Backun when he later buys out Home Depot/GuitarCenter/WWBW/ConnSelmerLelblancSteinway/GeneralMotors/Microsoft
*ooops I meant flady lady. Miso sorry
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
Post Edited (2007-06-29 13:51)
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-06-29 13:48
Out of curiosity, what are you playing on at present? Since nobody knows your current setup, it would be fooliosh to recommend ANYTHING to you at this time.
In any case, I would wait on getting a new bell. Work on making yourself better for now. Daily study, working with a very good teacher, and above all else, PRACTICE. If any piece of equipment is the most critical to you having a good sound, it's having a decent mouthpiece. That's where I would think of tweaking first, but only with the help of an experienced teacher.
By the way, I should mention that I own one of Morrie's clarinets. They are great, but I don't know specifically if a new bell would be the solution for you at this time. Again, consult your teacher, as your mileage may vary.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2007-06-29 23:00)
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Author: CPW
Date: 2007-06-29 13:56
Little devil sitting on her shoulder whispering "come over to the Dark Side of the sound"
Little angel on other shoulder whispering "practice"
Ya know who wins, dontja?
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-06-29 14:01
I agree with what most are saying: a new bell (I have a Backun myself) is a wonderful addition to your set-up, but there are many, many better ways to spend your money at this point in your playing career. A new bell will slightly alter your overall sound, and will help put a few notes into better tune and help focus a few others. It will not affect your technique, articulation, flexibility, basic tone. The best way to spend your money is on lessons with a GREAT teacher - pay the extra money to study with the best - it's worth it. The next place to spend your money may be on a professional quality mouthpiece, if you don't already have one. A really great mouthpiece CAN alter your flexibility/articulastion/sound. A really good barrel will also help more than a bell. Making sure you always play great reeds (try Ridenour's ATG system, for example) will help much more than a bell. I would definately hold off on the bell as one of the very last things to consider.
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Author: musiciandave
Date: 2007-06-29 14:54
Don't need to do the upgrade yet (if ever). Main thing is your training and practice - that's what you must have and be in top form. Equipment is nice and may make some things easier, but nothing, and I mean nothing is a substitute for really hard work and the best training that you can get. Also, have someone who you trust evaluate your level and potential. There are literally thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands who were in your shoes and never got employed playing at all.
Be realistic about it.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-06-29 15:17
If you're wanting to play pro the best thing to do is to work on your technique. Develop a good sound with a good mouthpiece set-up and take lessons, lots and lots of lessons.
But, as to the Backun bell, I do have one and really like it. I worked with Morrie directly on selecting one for me. It gave me a more even tone across the break.
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-06-29 15:25
If you play at a very high level then the Backun stuff might add a different dimension to your playing but as others have said, practice and lessons are much more important for younger players.
Post Edited (2007-06-29 20:04)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-06-29 15:35
...and the interesting bit usually sits behind the reed.
--
Ben
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Author: CPW
Date: 2007-06-29 16:35
Watch what you wish for, Tux.
Next thing will be designer reeds, with wings and colors and logos oh my
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
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Author: cpark
Date: 2007-06-29 16:41
"I have heard they make your sound great."
Absurd. They will not 'make' you sound great. In fact, even if you already sound great most non clarinetists would barely notice the difference in sound.
Chris
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2007-06-29 16:49
Custom gear is fun. But methinks knowing your stuff, having agreat sound, spot on sight reading skills, and solid soloing technique are what will get you the gig. Wish I had all of that. But I'm spending way to much time on family, job, ...
As I've often said on the SOTW forum, it is rarely the horn that makes the difference between success and failure. It is all about knowing how to practice effectively and getting out there to play.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-06-29 17:55
Working on developing a good tone and intonation along with technical skills will put you miles ahead of the game. Bad equipment will hinder a player, granted, but if you have a pretty decent instrument you can go a long way toward your goal. In fact, most pros don't have to have great equipment to sound great. You could pass your exact set up over to Ricardo Morales to play and you would be amazed at how it sounds. You probably wouldn't even recognize your horn! Is it Ricardo or is it the equipment? Hmmm...
BTW, I love new "gadgets" as much as the next person. But, after 46 years of playing I know it's what the musician does with it that makes the difference.
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-06-29 18:59
Flady Lady,
I'm going to echo others and say the most important thing for you right now is practicing, learning from a great teacher, and doing more research on the career and what schools you might want to apply to for college training. Read the classic books on clarinet playing, and listen to renowned players, too. Those are important parts of your education.
As far as equipment goes, the most important part of your setup that will affect the sound is the mouthpiece. Having a great reed that matches your great mouthpiece is next important. Third most important is probably the playing condition of your instrument. Fourth most important is the overall quality of the instrument itself. Next is probably the barrel, or maybe that's fourth, I dunno. Anyway, the least important is probably the bell. Not to say it's unimportant, but I wouldn't advise changing it until the first five things are in great shape. A new bell can spruce up an older instrument and smoothe out the break, and does affect the sound, but all those other things are more important. And, there are other makers of bells besides Mr. Backun. You should have an excellent teacher help you select any piece of equipment you buy. This will avoid shelling out large amounts of money and then discovering later that the piece of equipment didn't do what you thought it would. Also keep in mind when trying any piece of equipment that even in the same brand name, there is a lot of variation, so you need to try a bunch even in the same brand with an experienced teacher who can help you seperate the gems from the chaff.
Playing music can be a wonderful career. I urge you to be as informed as you can about the career and be proactive in getting into a good school, selecting a good teacher, reading the books, listening, and practicing. Best of luck to you!
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Author: Morrie Backun
Date: 2007-06-29 19:16
Hello,
Can you please contact me offline. My email is morrie@backunmusical.com
Since you are making statements "in Public" about our practices, hopefully you can provide factual information. In any event I would like to speak with you before proceeding.
Perhaps you could also enlighten us as to your expertise?
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Author: Morrie Backun
Date: 2007-06-29 19:17
Sorry, my message was specifically for BUFCLAR.
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Author: CPW
Date: 2007-06-29 20:00
(soto voce) ....this is gettin good
(theme from High Noon heard in background)
(voice-over, that ubiquitous "In a world..." movie trailer announcer):
"Can bufclar back up the statement?"
"Is Morrie about to unleash his biggest weapon yet, an attorney."
"Stay tuned in for the next episode of......As the Bell Tolls, brought to you by Cocobolopuffs, the chocolate cereal that stays in tune."
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-06-29 20:12
"Perhaps you could also enlighten us as to your expertise?"
My expertise doesn't have anything to do with what I said. I can only assume, unfortunately, that somehow I will be discredited because I am not a "big" name player who is highly visible. I deleted the previous post. I don't want this to go any further because I do not want the said performer to be involved. What was said was told to me in private and I guess I should have kept it that way.
Post Edited (2007-06-29 20:20)
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Author: Morrie Backun
Date: 2007-06-29 22:12
Hello,
As you may notice Bufclar, I asked you to write me privately. I do not think that your posted message sounds correct and I would like to dispel rumors. I really do not want to sound like the heavy here so please contact me privately.
Morrie Backun
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Author: CPW
Date: 2007-06-29 22:40
"And the sun sets on Day 1 of the New Camp David Accords meetings."
Back to you in the studio, Ted Koppel.
"OK, so we see some posturing and some capitulation bilaterally, but as we all know, things can erupt. More, after this commercial."
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-06-29 22:47
CPW wrote:
> "And the sun sets on Day 1 of the New Camp David Accords
> meetings."
> Back to you in the studio, Ted Koppel.
>
> "OK, so we see some posturing and some capitulation
> bilaterally, but as we all know, things can erupt. More, after
> this commercial."
[ Let's get the thread back on topic, please - GBK ]
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Author: David Niethamer
Date: 2007-06-30 02:03
I'd like to add a slightly different bit of advice to this thread:
1.) Listen to as much music as possible. Listen to other clarinetists. Listen to fine violinists, cellists, singers, pianists (you get the point)
2.) Listen to clarinet music. Listen to other works by composers of your favorite clarinet pieces, to hear what these composers had to say in a broader musical sense.
Examples - Brahms clarinet sonatas, Op. 120. Op. 121 is the songs with viola obligato. Op. 122 is a set of organ pieces, the last music Brahms ever wrote. The Brahms Trio is Op. 114, the Quintet Op. 115. In between these pieces and the sonatas are some of the most glorious short piano works ever written by any composer. Listen to them. Want to "understand" the third movement of the F minor sonata, or the Trio, Op. 114. Listen to all the Brahms Waltzes for piano, and the Liebeslieder Waltzes.
You can make these parallels with any composer.
Learn about composers by reading about them. Read Tony Pay's article "Phrasing in Contention" (on woodwind.org?) http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Study/Phrasing.html
Strive as much to become a musician as to become a "grenadilla plumber".
Then of course, follow all the advice above. Find a good teacher, and learn to play the clarinet well so that you can "say" what the music requires you to say.
If a Backun bell or a Grabner mouthpiece, or a Bonade ligature (or any other equipment of your choice) helps you to get there, great. But before any equipment can help you to play better, you have to understand clearly what it is that you need to improve, and what it is that you want to accomplish musically. No equipment by itself can do that for you.
David
(owner of a Backun bell, Grabner K11 mouthpiece [among countless others!!], Spriggs ligature, and Kooiman thumb rest.)
David
niethamer@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/dbnclar1/index.html
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Author: David Niethamer
Date: 2007-06-30 02:09
Sorry to double post, but...
Go to the conferences (ClarinetFest, Oklahoma Symposium, etc.) and try **everything**
Be quick and eager to try new things.
Be slow to spend your hard earned money!
David
niethamer@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/dbnclar1/index.html
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-06-30 04:12
one thing about this 'the sound is in the player, not the equipment' stuff.
I just want point out that, although the player is the most important, you'll notice that there are no big orchestra players using plastic Bundys.
Even if you do get some Backun products, you'll have to choose from a huge variety of designs. When you feel the tools you have can no longer serve you, that is when you need new equipment.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2007-06-30 15:16
Hello,
I agree with David Niethamer's last post. I would take it one step further, however. Don't let the person sitting on the other side of the table at a convention sell you on their product (that's what they are there to do) by them telling you how good you sound. Take their product, if you are interested, back to your hotel room or a quiet place. Use a trusted friend to listen to you. Test the products methodically, then decide.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-06-30 16:38
I've been a fan of Backun products for a while now. They really do help me to sound better, but I also know that sometimes we give young players the impression that all they need to do to sound like a pro is purchase the pro equipment. I agree that excellent equipment is needed to achieve the high professional end of musicianship, because poor equipment will hinder the player. But, we also need to remember that the basics skills must be there first. Of course, if a student player is using a bad instrument that will be a hinderance to his/her performing skills and even possibly discourage them to the point where they quit playing.
So, that said, I wholeheartedly endorse Morrie's stuff and have to say the Cocobolo bell and barrel combo stepped my sound up a notch. I also want to add that I use a Backun mouthpiece as well (I also have a Grabner K14) and these two mouthpieces are exceptionally good tools along with good reeds and a good ligature. I use Vandoren V-12 reeds and switch between a Pyne string ligature and a BG Super Revelation. I like the Pyne string when I'm doing things like Dixieland and Klezmer.
Post Edited (2007-06-30 16:39)
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-06-30 22:38
when oh when will Mr Backun make a line of reeds? THAT'S what i'm waiting for!!!!!!!!
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Author: pzen
Date: 2007-06-30 23:43
Other then they really make you clarinet look ugly!
I don't believe Frank Cohen uses any backun stuff, and I understand that he can imitate anyones sound. I vote for what is behind the reed, and that I believe comes from practice. My teacher says that when he first met Mictchel Lurie, he asked about his setup. Lurie said he had no idea what brand the mouthpiece was, and was playing on a reed that looked split. Lance Armstrong would have done very well on a Schwinn Varsity. My uneducated opinion.
Peace, love and understanding
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Author: Ed
Date: 2007-07-01 01:30
That's it. Tomorrow I am going out to find out what kind of golf clubs Tiger Woods uses and buy a set. I am sure that will make me play as well as he does. (of course, I have never played golf, but never mind that....)
I'll let you know how it goes. I am sure I will win the Masters next year. ;-)
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Author: jack
Date: 2007-07-01 02:42
The sense I'm getting from the responses is that some, but not all, believe they hear a difference in the sound with the Backun bell. I have a Backun bell on my R-13. I can feel and sense a difference, which I value highly. Whether anyone can hear it, I don't know. I once heard a Rossi sponsored clarinetist try a larger, fairly massive rossi bell in place of the standard and I could easily hear a (subjective description) larger, nicer pallette of sound, so I know that bells make a difference.
Now hear is the real deal: I have a Backun Cocobollo Bell for my Buffet Prestige Bass Clarinet. The difference in sound is monumental. Everyone can easily hear the difference and the difference is very much all to the good. It almost makes the sound with the original bell sound like a toy instrument compared to the sound with the Backun bell in an A - B comparison. (Not my opinion only). On occasion, I have put the Backun bell on after having played 4 -5 nights with the original bell and it never fails - one or more orchestra members who hadn't noticed the equipment change, will comment that I sounded especially good that night. Anytime the conductor has said that, I, of course, leave it on for sure. I must say, by the way, that the Cocobollo bell is gorgeous and the workmanship is extremely high caliber. Fwiw, Rossi also makes a bell for the Buffet Bass Clarinet.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-07-01 14:19
I agree with jack's comment in that my sound is definately better with the Backun bell. And, the mouthpiece (the Orkestra model) made a huge difference as well. The mouthpiece made a more subjective difference that is more noticeable to me, but the bell made one that my fellow clarinettists can tell right away.
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Author: nickma
Date: 2007-07-01 20:55
I would agree: Backun barrels make a singificantly greater different than bells. The 'bell affect' is subtle though positive, the barrel is significant and profound. They vary a lot though, so in your position I would go for a less resistant one. I sold my bell, kept my barrel and bought another. I had to buy 3 backun barrels before finding one that gave me the affect that i wanted. Best not to buy mail order for this purchase.
Nick
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Author: LCL
Date: 2007-07-01 23:40
Jack's post above really convinced me that I need the Backun BC bell. Morrie did extensive work to my Leblanc 430, which included voicing, gold plating and sizing the neck. I also purchased a BC + mpc. And, wow what a difference all this made. I used to defend the Leblanc BC when many maligned it for various reasons. But I guess I did not know how great a horn it could be until Morrie worked on it. I just finished a summer concert series with it and it performed gorgeously. I know he's busy with Clarinet Fest 2007 in Vancouver this week. But I'm going to have to have Morrie's BC bell soon.
All the best to Morrie Backun
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Author: David Niethamer
Date: 2007-07-02 01:33
nickma wrote:
> Backun barrels make a singificantly greater different than bells.
I think this falls into the "YMMV" category. I own a bell, which makes a significant difference in the way my clarinets play. At the time I bought the bell, I tried 3 barrels, none of which ultimately were satisfactory **FOR ME**. That's not to say that I wouldn't have found a useful barrel if I had been persistent. But three separate professional colleagues said essentially to keep the bell, but that the barrels were not right for my instrument. I concurred, and was glad to have the confirmation from ears that I trusted.
My bell evens out the timbre between the third line B, third space C and the throat tones below, making the register change in that area much more seamless.
Of course, as I said, YMMV.
David
niethamer@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/dbnclar1/index.html
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-07-02 06:33
pzen- "I vote for what is behind the reed [...] Lance Armstrong would have done very well on a Schwinn Varsity."
Well, yes and no, IMO. Although Lance Armstrong whould have done well on a Schwinn, he did BEST with the bike he chose. The reason is that it DOES make a difference.
For Clarinets- even if the audience can't hear a difference in the tone proper, if it makes a difference to the player then it will allow them to do what they want more easily. THAT will be noticable to the audience. If the audience can hear that you are struggling or are at ease. Would you practice on one horn and then, right before the concert, use a friend's horn?? No, because you know how your horn "feels"; and if a bell or barrel helps you "feel" comfortable it will help your playing. Just like having the pads good shape or great shape- that little bit matters in the end.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-07-02 12:59
I'm sure Lance could ride the hound out of a Schwinn, but the fact remains that he rides a custom-designed bike that costs a fortune. Tons of research and development went into the one that finally made the cut for the Tour de France. The average bike enthuasiast would not be willing to pay what Lance's bikes cost. He wouldn't have won all those races on a plain old Schwinn. The competition is too fierce. But, when you want to be a cut above the rest, every little edge is worth it.
Post Edited (2007-07-02 13:07)
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Author: bahamutofskycon
Date: 2007-07-02 13:28
I have nothing against buying a custom bell, although in my limited experience with them barrels seem to make more difference in sound and response *for me.*
I would say that at this stage in your life take that money you would spend, get yourself a *good* stock broker (or get your parents to get you a good stock broker) and invest that money. Watch it grow, reinvest it, get familiar with the stock market, and don't take it out for 50 years.
You will thank me at retirement.
Steve Ballas
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-07-02 14:18
bahamutofskycon offers a good retirement plan (see the above post)
Referable to the subject of this thread, I offer the following, which would, of course, benefit Backun, Me, and others
An alternative to that investment would be to buy up large quantities of "boutique" barrels, bells, and mouthpieces, hold them for 50 years and resell them.
Viz. If you bought Kaspar mouthpieces at the going rate of $15.oo in 1961*, they are worth in the neighborhood of $600.00 or more today.
.....Disclaimer: I am NOT an investment planner
* I have the receipt to prove it.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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