 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clariguy
Date: 2007-01-07 13:46
Hi,it's me again. Do you all know that instruments have lifespans? I only got to know it recently from my band director. I googled a bit and found out that the lifespan of a decent clarinet is around 15years.
However, I got some questions. What happens when the clarinet exceeds is lifespan? Also, many of us I believe use our instrument for years, how does that affect our playing?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-07 14:11
clariguy wrote:
>I googled a bit and found out that the lifespan of a
> decent clarinet is around 15years.
And the lifespan of an indecent one is????
In all reality, that is hogwash. Ask around to real clarinet professionals (not your band director) and you'll find a variety of answers. There are an AWFUL lot of professionals playing clarinets made before 1992!
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-01-07 14:40
My daughter is playing my old Buffet R13, which was manufactured in 1971. This is a superb clarinet, and better, by far, than many new instruments made today. I had her teacher inspect it when I gave it to her as a Christmas gift in 2005, and he (a member of the Detroit Symphony) said that the only work it needed was to have a few keys silenced to reduce keyclicks. Outside of that, it was as good as the day I took possession of it. And it's currently thirty-six years old and going strong! So much for the idea of "fifteen years," provided you maintain the instrument properly. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
Jeff
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-01-07 14:40
Do you also believe in the Easter Bunny?
None of my clarinets is less than 50 years old, and they all play great. My best clarinet is probably 75 years old. Of course, they've been overhauled recently (big deal).
Your band director is (to put in nicely) misinformed.
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Author: William
Date: 2007-01-07 14:40
For what it may be worth, I've been playing my Buffet R13 Bb since I bought it in 1964--and it is showing no signs of "decline" in its old age. My alto sax is a Selmer Balanced Action model that was made before I was born--and it has not lost its voice. And there are still many violinists who would not part with their "aged" Strads. I do not buy that "blown out" theory. If you take care of your instrument, it should last forever--or at least, for your lifetime.
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Author: MC
Date: 2007-01-07 14:56
My old Selmer 10 is still going strong after 30+ years. I finally broke down and bought a new set of Signatures a few years ago. Didn't really need to -- just wanted something new. I still play the 10, although now as a backup instrument rather than as my primary Bb.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2007-01-07 15:44
The 15 year life span is probably based on the school's band instruments, after they have gone through the hands of numerous students who have bounced them down the bleacher steps and have never had the keys oiled.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-01-07 18:04
Thanks for the information. I have a clarinet from 1992 and actually played it today, but now I know better and I'm going to throw it away imediately!
"Do you also believe in the Easter Bunny?"
Wait... what... hmm..... what exactly are you trying to say?! Do you really mean.... no.... couldn't be...... 
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Author: Neil
Date: 2007-01-07 18:23
I guess there's no need to hang onto that old violin either.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-07 18:26
I no longer play my old Selmers which date from around 1949-1950 as I have a newer pair (though there's still plenty of playing life left in the old ones) which I play on full time - and they date from 1964 and 1978, and a Buffet Eb from 1962, so your band director is talking out of his A-hole.
So what does your band director reckon the lifespan of a clarinet is, how has he reached this conclusion (and which major woodwind company is he a rep for - 'Buy our clarinets, ours have a longer lifespan than [insert make]'s clarinets')? A clarinet will give several decades of playing provided it's well looked after and maintained by the player.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-07 18:42
> Thanks for the information. I have a clarinet from 1992 and actually
> played it today, but now I know better and I'm going to throw it away
> imediately!
Clarnibass,
do not indiscriminately throw decommissioned clarinets into the rubbish bin. I am a honorable instrument recycler and will make sure your worn horn will be properly disposed of, in accordance with any environmental laws. (For a little extra charge I can post a video of your old RC being incinerated or run over by a caterpillar)
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-07 19:05
Does this mean my prehistoric Selmers will suddly turn into dust in my hands?
I know 'white goods' tend to have a limited lifespan, but how long exactly is it from new when a clarinet will suddenly self destruct, and is there any prior warning? Should I pay extra for an extended warranty?
How long is my Buffet bass going to last? I bought it back in 2000, so will it suddenly blow up one night? And now I've just bought a new Yamaha Oehler system - when will I have to dump this in a ditch down some country lane late at night when it's stopped working?
I NEED TO KNOW!
I just realised - my oboe and cor were bought new, as was my flute, piccolo and alto flute, and all my saxes! I better make sure I don't get caught for fly-tipping when they all suddnly pack up!
How long will a Salvi Arianna harp last for - mine's just over 3 years old!
Just as well I have a big car - I can fly-tip the lot in one go! Come to think of it, my car is 10 years old - looks like I'll have to torch the lot in a layby or the disused quarry or airfield nearby.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2007-01-07 19:12)
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Author: Neil
Date: 2007-01-07 19:44
In re-reading the thread I notice that William beat me to the punch in mentioning violins. Seriously, though, I played on a clarinet which dates from the 1920's up until last year. As has been noted, lots of clarinets last a long time. There have been discussions on this board about clarinets getting "blown out" but I don't believe that to be an incurable problem. Pivot points in the keys will eventually wear out and the keywork will get sloppy; when it gets to the point that you need all new keys you can probably concede that you've gotten your money's worth out of that horn and move on but I don't foresee that happening in 15 years. 15 years may be a reasonable time between overhauls, though.
Post Edited (2007-01-07 20:19)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-01-07 20:09
Like Chris P, I have "old" Selmers, BUT regard my CT [1954] Bb and my 1929 "Winged {HS tuned?}" A as my Best "pair". My '50's Leblanc Dyn 2, '80's L7, and my friend's [special] Leb as described in Leon's 1933 patent are also fine horns. However, I admit that these cls have not had a hard life, and have been well cared for, certainly far better than the average [mediocre to begin with] "student cl", which may be the band director's basis for "15 years". I vote for 100 years !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-07 20:26
"Pivot points in the keys will eventually wear out and the keywork will get sloppy; when it gets to the point that you need all new keys you can probably concede that you've gotten your money's worth out of that horn and move on but I don't foresee that happening in 15 years."
Pivot screws can be replaced and keys can have barrel grafts if they wear out excessively, so as long as the body is structurally sound any clarinet of worth can be rebuilt so everything is as good as new, if not better.
Silver plating can hide any keywork repairs such as barrel grafts, broken keys and replacing worn out rings or pad cups (which is pretty rare), tenons can be sleeved, sockets lined and toneholes can be bushed.
Only if a clarinet has suffered major damage (ie. crushed by a truck) then it's not economical to repair.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-07 20:45
I like these comments:
"I actually dont play clarinet, but I am interested in learning, and I cant stand the sound of a regular clarinet"
"Older wind instruments dont play in tune - at least not as good as more modern ones"
Little wonder why they're remaining 'Anonymous'.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2007-01-07 21:38
Dear "me again",
A good technician can keep your keywork going, even for people like me who use way too much key pressure. Keeping the rest of the instrument in shape is a different story.
Keep the bore oiled. Do it religiously every day the instrument is played. There are posts on this board about which mineral or vegetable oil(s)/additives to use. Pick someone's suggestion and use it. Your instruments will last and last.
Regards,
Ralph
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-07 21:42
Ralph Katz wrote:
> Do it religiously every day the
> instrument is played.
No, please don't oil it every day - you'll end up with an unnecessary mess on your hands (literally and figuratively!). Daily oiling is never necessary!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-07 23:03
I only oil my clarinets when they look dry. Certainly not every day as that's too much - twice a year tops, but usually about once a year is enough.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Burt
Date: 2007-01-07 23:05
My Buffet R13 (or is it a pre-R13?) #49453 is 51 years old. Other than replacing a few springs and screws and fixing a few nicks, it's as good as new.
I wonder if the band director meant that, after 15 years of passing it from one student to another every year, it was not worth repairing.
I also heard that mouthpieces are no good after 50 years. It was a good excuse to get a new one, so I did. But that's a lot less expensive than buying a new instrument.
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-01-07 23:12
Dang! My ca 1930 Selmer Bb and FB Bb both look real nice, but since I have just read that they are no good any more I suppose I need to dispose of them. However, out of respect for their age and years of making beautiful music (that was before I got them, of course), rather that tip them in a ditch, maybe I should bury them in a pretty spot in the nearby National Forest. Sigh! S'long guys! Eu
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-07 23:18
Band and school/college owned instruments get a lot of abuse as they're not well maintained to the same degree a privately owned one is, so their lifespan is significantly less than an instrument that is taken care of.
But even the ones that look like a lost cause can be resurrected - my R13 Eb clarinet was a right mess when I bought it - the barrel and bell were split, all the screws were rusty, all the keys were tarnished and the wood was all dried out.
But I've rebuilt it, cleaned up all the screws, tarted the keys up and silver plated everything and it's a great little beast. I let someone that ownes an RC Eb pla it, and though it was different to his Eb, he couldn't fault it's playability and tone - and as he was used to the tuning on his Eb on certain notes it didn't take long for him to adapt to mine.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2007-01-07 23:27
In my own experience, instruments have lost that special something after anything from 6 to about 15 years of heavy playing (emphasis on *heavy* -- it isn't like a clock starts when you put down the credit card and the instrument explodes in a cloud of mpingo splinters after 15 years no matter how much action it has seen). I don't think that is totally off the wall. I work with several well-respected symphony clarinetists who turn over their clarinets as quickly as every 3-5 years for that reason. It isn't an absolute though as Mark C points out. There are some spectacular older instruments out there for sure. If you are still getting a satisfying result, no matter the age, it is the right instrument for you.
I also don't agree with the violin analogy. You don't blow hot, moist air, saliva, and lord knows what else into it and then run a cloth through it several times an hour. There is ample griping on this board about how easily clarinets crack. Is it not illustrative of the strain a clarinet (or oboe for that matter) is put through on a daily basis?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-01-07 23:28
Anyone who has a spare A clarinet that is more than 15 years old, please contact me, as my daughter needs a better one than the loaner from her school, and I am sure she would struggle along with an instrument that is no longer worth your bothering to keep it! ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
We would not even ask you to pay us to take it off your hands.
Jeff
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2007-01-07 23:41
Mark,
There are probably as many ways to do this as there are oil formulations.
I have an "oil swab", put a few drops of oil on it, and run it through the instrument once or twice.
This does not make a mess.
Thanks,
Ralph
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-08 00:03
Ralph Katz wrote:
> There are probably as many ways to do this as there are oil
> formulations.
Probably so.
You are over-oiling your clarinet as any repairperson would tell you - even a couple of drops a day is going to, over time, build up gunk in the tone holes and cause problems. There's no reason to oil daily. I know the climate, living as I do a few miles from you.
The advice I've just dispensed is worth what you paid for it, though ...
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-01-08 01:25
what does the manufacturer of your instrument recommend?
what does the manufacturer of your brand of bore oil suggest?
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: cuscoclarinet
Date: 2007-01-08 01:39
Re: comment by ChrisP-
"Older wind instruments dont play in tune - at least not as good as more modern ones"
Well, I've got to say, I've got a basswood clarinet that doesn't at all play in tune, at least not WITH modern ones! Sadly, now that I know it's lived nearly ten lives, I think I'll just have to use it for kindling
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Author: hinotehud ★2017
Date: 2007-01-08 02:07
Harold Wright said in an interview that clarinets of the symphony player typically last 10 years. He went on to say this was due to the long hours of daily playing and how much louder you need to play as a symphony musician. His interview can be heard at http://www.wgbh.org/article?item_id=1840844 At about 3:12 in the interview he discusses this issue.
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Author: graham
Date: 2007-01-08 07:45
In fairness, it does not seem the band director quoted the 15 years, and he was probably talking about instruments in general. And warping can arise, and has often been thought to arise more readily in recently manufactured instruments, which is probably what he was refering to. Just because there are a handful of clarinets of great age (mine are about 100 years) that have survived in a playable condition (though that is only a personal view in each case of course) does not mean that more recently manufactured instruments will, or that the life expectancy of all instruments of any era is as long as those potentially exceptional examples.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-01-08 12:41
I have heard that Morales gets new selmers every 8 months or so.
Is this true? If it is, it seems to be an amaizingly negative ad for Selmer clarinets- 'Our clarinets are great! But only for the first year... Then they need to be replaced.'
-
My favorite clarinet I have is a Buffet from 1896, great sound, and if the keys were made of metal that held up for more than a week without adjustment I would still be using it.
-S
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-01-08 12:49
Is Ricardo still playing Selmers since he's collaborating with Morrie Backun over clarinet stuff now?
I lost track of Ricardo's choice of instrument way back when he was playing a Buffet Greenline Festival.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-01-08 15:36
There is a myth that clarinets "blow out" with service. The lore blames degeneration of the elastic properties of the wood. Similar worries used to trouble cyclists --their framesets going soft.
I've challenged a few academic professionals on the blow out "problem" and have never had a satisfactory discussion. I've even proposed a PhD materials science dissertaion program in conjunction with a music department.
As a technologist, I disbelieve in clarinets dying of old age.
Clearly, mechanisms can wear out and need to be refurbished; but I'm confident that aging problems are minimal with stable (seasoned and sound to start with) wood.
On the other hand, one of my colleagues buys a new horn every three years or so just to stay enthused.
Bob Phillips
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-01-08 16:11
Brenda, I think I recall Morrie telling me that he had ordered a Legacy or two ...or maybe more.
jeff
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-01-08 16:18
ahhh...thanks Jeff. Sigh.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2007-01-09 01:02
I am doing exactly what my repair person told me to do.
Yep I pay him more than I pay you, Mark. But that don't mean a thing.
Regards
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-01-09 13:55
I have find that older clarinets (and saxophones) have markedly worse tuning than new ones. However, I think that those instruments were probably not made as well as today's in the first place.
However I have found the tone on older clarinets (esp. Buffets that are 60yrs old or more) to be much more to my liking. Is this due to the bore that can never be in tune? ie. can one get the great sound of some antiques and the pitch of today's?
-S
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Author: johnnymo0829
Date: 2007-01-09 14:55
I think that in general the wood quality on older clarinets seems to be a bit better. The top of the line clarinets will still have the most choice wood available, but I've played my series 9 and my series 10 up against the new made selmers and buffets and love the way my older selmers play. I kind of get a kick out of the fact that both my bB's are older than I am and my yamaha custom a clarinet is older than my grade school deploma. I agree that key work will wear out, as long as you constantly keep the clarinet in as stable an environment as possible and have it looked over by a good tech you trust the clarinet should stay fine indefinately. I normally have mine looked at about twice a year with the major change of seasons. I never do the big no-no's with them like eating or drinking (other than water) while I'm playing with them. I found that keeping a humidifier in the case and storing the instruments in a stable area of my home will keep them in great shape. besides that I think getting a new horn every 8 months or so can get very expensive.
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Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-01-10 08:05
my pre-R13 was made in 1950... Very lovely instrument (could use more volume tho)
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-01-10 10:42
Jeff, Brenda:
Ricardo is definately playing on a both Legacy and a Symphonie. He plays mostly on the Legacy, but occasionaly on the Symphonie as well, although he couldn't elaborate any specific reason he would choose one horn over the other for any specific piece/venue, etc. I'm sure his search for the perfect instrument/set-up is genuine, but that guy sounds great on anything!
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-01-10 10:57
In regards to whether or not a clarinet can get "blown-out", I feel like I have blown-out a clarinet or 2 in the 10-12 year span, back in the 70's and 80's when I was playing Buffets. Maybe it has something to do with a particular quality in the wood when a clarinet is new? Maybe some clarinets can be blown out and others stand the test of time? I do not dispute anyone who states that scientifically it is impossible to play a clarinet to death in 10 years, however, I have never known a professional player who was playing on an instrument more than 10 years old. I'm sure they're out there - any stories?
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2007-01-10 14:42
I've doodled around on a few old Buffets that I felt were "worn out", but it was mostly the keywork rather than the body, bore or toneholes. For the record, I've always felt that Buffet clarinets felt "flimsy", and that Leblanc instruments felt "clunky", with Selmer and B & H feeling "just right" (in Three Bears terms).
(I've not played enough soprano Yamaha hardware to offer an opinion one way or the other.)
That said, the best of them all (sweetest tone, best keywork, level intonation) were the Buffet Albert system bass clarinets that I've played (two total), both dating from around the turn of the century. According to some thoughts expressed hereon, they should have both been "played out" long time passing, but if they were I never could sense it.
Despite (or perhaps because of) their antiquity, they were still rock solid (once overhauled), in tune with their selves (is that a proper English construct?) and of the richest tone that I've ever heard from a bass of any brand, style or manufacturer. It doesn't seem right, but it was.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-01-10 15:11
I have talked to a few seasoned orchestra players when I was in college about this very subject and the one thing that thay all had in common was their response about using old clarients. Their main concern with them was not the sound or the pitch, but the keys. The fact that they had to be more careful and aware of a more fragile mechanical system outweighed any other advantage, for them.
The security of knowing that no matter the weather or the season, the keys will not be lose nor will they bind up- anyone with experience using old clarinets knows that this is a very difficult balance and more difficult than on newer clarinets. Also, the quality of the key metal itself is not a good as that of new clarients; the old metal is markedly softer and falls out of adjustment more often. To use an extreem example, When I was using the above mentiond 1896 Buffet, I had to adjust it every week, literally. I do all my own repair, so it was no cost from my pocket, but it took so much of my time that I gave up. I got a set of clarinets from 1986; I did an overhaul once and the clarinet has stayed in regulation for over a year.
It wasn't a choice of sound, but of convience, for me.
I have a R13 from the 60s and if I wanted it to be as good as a new R13, I would have to spend a lot of time with the mechanism; and even if I did, it would fall out of regulation sooner than a new R13. Those are the breaks ... [pun intended... =) ]
-S
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-10 15:25
My original Centered Tone Bb had more dry solder joints in the keywork than I care to mention, but since I sorted these out, it's been as good as gold and has never gone out of adjustment - not bad for a pair of clarinets that had sat in an attic for around 20 years before I bought them. I just found the mouthpiece that came with them - a Selmer 'Table A' with the Selmer logo just above the tenon (and not in the middle of the mouthpiece).
I recently overhauled a 'Q' series bass, and that too had unplated keywork and some dry joints, but again these were easy enough to sort out - and as the keys are unplated there was no worry of the finish going funny through the effects of the heat needed for silver soldering.
And the tone was incredible on this bass too.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: graham
Date: 2007-01-10 16:18
My Martels make a clacking sound but otherwise do not go out of adjustment (except throat G on the A clarinet where the F sharp key sometimes sticks down).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-10 16:29
graham wrote:
> My Martels make a clacking sound but otherwise do not go out of
> adjustment (except throat G on the A clarinet where the F sharp
> key sometimes sticks down).
Is the ring for LH 1 catching on the tonehole chimney, or is the thumb ring lever biting into the cork on the upper part of the linkage making it stick?
As for clacking, use thicker oil next time they're in for a service.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Dick
Date: 2007-01-10 18:32
Everbody knows that clarinets begin to go sour after their expiration date. You can postpone this spoilage by storing your clarinet in the refigerator, but eventually you just have to use it up or throw it out:)
Dick
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-01-10 19:25
Not to mention fatigue cracking and the ensuing brittle fracture failure of the clarinet from too many pressurization/de-pressurization cycles (a.k.a. the "de Havilland Comet Effect"). A clarinet played too long can literally explode in the hands of the player! Needless to say, this is followed (in the U.S., anyway) by protracted and expensive litigation. To preclude such horror, clarinets should all be discarded (preferably burned to a crisp, to prevent re-use) following the second year of playing.
This is just my opinion, but my ego would be flattered if you would take it as gospel.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-01-10 21:21
Straying from Topic, GBK ! Dave, an [im]pertinent ?, would your ego be flattened if we should extend the "shelf-life" period ? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-01-10 21:22
Since I run a recycling center here in North Arkansas, I am in a good central location to receive all your 10+ year old clarinets that are nearing their self-destruct date. Please send them or bring them to our clarinet recycle bin as soon as possible so as to avoid injuries from flying splinters. keys, springs, etc.
Disclaimer: This message is provided solely for the purpose of public safety as I do not work for any instrument company which is trying to sell more new clarinets.
(corrected spelling)
Eu
Post Edited (2007-01-10 21:23)
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