 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: inspiring musician
Date: 2006-12-30 07:31
Ok, so i am a true beliver in such extraordinary products, and you dont know how much the Bakcun mouthpieces have done for me in every way possible, including intonation, projection, response, articulation, etc. I tried one Backun Philadelphia mouthpiece over break and when i first tried it my first reaction was WOW. Honestly not like any other mp ive tried, and now i see why their so expensive, and why so many top notch artists are raving over these. The "Philadelphia" is a pretty open mouthpiece, but man talking about getting your sound seriously to the way back of the hall!!, the projection was just surprising, and the sound is as gorgeous and huge as it can be, so i purchased it without any doubt. Has anyone had the same results as I when trying these mouthpieces, mainly the "Philadelphia"?
|
|
|
|
|
Author: skygardener
Date: 2006-12-30 09:01
Post Edited (2008-01-23 04:29)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Chris22311
Date: 2006-12-30 11:28
I agree w/ skygardner. It can be quite an illusion. Does not carry the same center and ring that a great m15 can project. Can feel comfortable to toot on though. Would personally prefer a hawkins hand picked.
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2006-12-30 13:20
Post Edited (2007-01-18 01:01)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mags1957
Date: 2006-12-30 13:24
I don't think one can classify a piece of equipment as having a particular "sound". Do you think that all players who play on Backun barrels and bells sound alike? I think not. Perhaps the Backun mouthpiece didn't work for you, but it certainly did for me. It did not alter my sound at all - it just made it easier for me to get the sound, improved my intonation and projection. I've been playing an Orchestra model for 6 months, and still love it. My "palate of colors" is as big or bigger than on my Hawkins. I suffer no loss of flexibility. Could it be that my embouchure, reeds, or interior of my mouth is slightly (or greatly) different than yours? <insert sarcastic gasp here>
I'm a big fan of all the Backun products, but I do not try to "push" them on anyone. If your Vandoren or Hawkins mouthpiece works well for you - great! Why do we think that one mouthpiece, one barrel, one sound is the best. I for one am glad that there are so many options out there, and glad that we are not all seeking the same sound (although there is a lot more of that now than there was a couple of decades ago, when you could tell what orchestra you were listening to in the first 8 bars). Let's celebrate our differences in what we like and what we play, and not try to convince others that they have it all wrong.
Inspiring musician - congratulations on your new purchase, it sounds fantastic. If in fact you did get a bigger sound, better intonation, better response, articulation and more projection, then it was a bargain! I hope you feel the same way in a year from now. Skygardner - congratulations on being able to get the sound you want on an inexpensive mouthpiece - I am envious (no sarcasm - I mean it)! Chris - I played a Hawkins for many years and liked it a lot - it's a great mouthpiece, no doubt.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: inspiring musician
Date: 2006-12-30 16:02
in not trying to say that backun is the one and only product that clarinetists are going to move too, i was just shocked at what an amazing diffenrence in sound that they can make. if you sound amazing on a vandoren then congradulations, but to me i just had to move up further in tone color, response, ease of articulation, intonation, and projection. I used to play on an Vandoren M13 Lyre mp, and projection was quite well, but with the Backun "Philadelphia" model my sound literally projects to the back of the orchestra hall, as many teachers, and students told me. They described the sound as being big, gorgeous, round, and vibrant in certain passages. Mouthpieces arent for everybody obviously, you just have to decide whats best for you and your sound concept.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: bufclar
Date: 2006-12-30 17:42
Inspiring Musician,
I'm interested in your observations about the Backun Mouthpiece. I find it extreme that you switched from a mouthpiece with a 1.02mm tip opening to a mouthpiece with a 1.15 mm tip.
Was the switch hard to make? Do you have to use harder reeds on the Backun? My R13's with Chadash barrels and my M13 Lyre play really well in tune. How does the Backun differ in intonation compared to the M13 Lyre? Is it pitched in the 442 area or the 440 area?
What reeds are you using on the Backun as compared to the Vandoren?
What Ligature?
What is the rubber like?
How is the resistance compared to your Vandoren?
I don't like Zinner rubber and am on the hunt for a quality mouthpiece that splits the difference between Vandoren and the Zinner. I have tried Riddenours and Genussa's but they were not my cup of tea. They were both good but not any better than my Vandoren. I have tried many makers mouthpieces including Fobes, Grabner, Smith, Lomax, and Hawkins and I thought they were all tremendous but I just think Zinner material can sound dull or covered (that might just be me playing them because many great players with beautiful sounds play zinner mouthpieces). Any comments on the Backun rubber? Is it similar to Zinner or more like Vandoren?
|
|
|
|
|
Author: J. J.
Date: 2006-12-30 17:52
The Backun rubber is Zinner
|
|
|
|
|
Author: bufclar
Date: 2006-12-30 17:55
Thanks J.J. that is good to know!
|
|
|
|
|
Author: inspiring musician
Date: 2006-12-30 19:33
the transition wasnt that big
i use vandoren v12's 3.5 on my philadelphia
and i love it
i also use a vandoren optimum ligature (plate1)
and the tuning is phenominal,
intonation is dead on
not only did i hear a big difference, but others did too.
and the resistance is perfect.
but you have to have a strong air supprt with the philadelphia
|
|
|
|
|
Author: eric293
Date: 2006-12-30 20:11
I tried a Backun barrel a few months ago and felt it was very hard to blend in with ensembles.
Buffet R13-M15 w/ 3 1/2-V12
Attending Interlochen Arts Academy
|
|
|
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2006-12-30 21:04
as far as i know the M13 Lyre has a tip opening of about 1.06.... but maybe i'm wrong
|
|
|
|
|
Author: bufclar
Date: 2006-12-30 21:11
No the tip opening is 1.02. the M15 is like 1.04 and the 5RV is around 1.05 or 1.06.
Post Edited (2006-12-30 21:18)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: kev182
Date: 2006-12-31 02:19
Im dieing to try these mouthpieces but WWBW only had the traditional and the Camereta... which i ordered to try
Does anyone know what shop carries these..rather than going to backun himself
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mags1957
Date: 2006-12-31 02:32
My advice: go to Backun directly. They are very nice to deal with and will send you as many to try as you like.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: kev182
Date: 2006-12-31 13:54
yea...true but when you return there may be tax/duty problems and do you pay for every mouthpiece you try?
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mags1957
Date: 2006-12-31 14:15
Nope - the shipping is a bit more, but you don't have to pay any taxes or duties for mouthpieces you try. You just ship them back like any other place.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-12-31 14:22
Morrie is really great about crediting back your card as soon as they get your return. Nothing like wwbw or even Muncy Winds who wait a couple of weeks (or more) before it's credited back and you sometimes have to call them to remind them. As for duty tax, etc., they mark the barrels and bells as "clarinet parts," and I didn't have to pay anything. You should give them a call because you really get the best service directly. And, his prices are the same as wwbw. PLUS, you won't have to worry about what is going to happen in the mix with the money situation at wwbw.
You'll be out shipping both ways, but it's worth it to get the right set-up.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: skygardener
Date: 2006-12-31 14:31
Post Edited (2008-01-23 04:33)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: sherman
Date: 2006-12-31 14:54
Have any of you read the fairy tale."The Emperor's New Clothes"?
If not, or if so, I humbly suggest that all read this wonderful story for it is true of every new clarinet product that is made or exists. Matter of fact, read it every day.
For proof, I request that all posters on this or any other site retry their new stuff in three or four days and then write a follow-up.
Mind you, I do not think that anything dishonest is being perpetrated by the makers of all of these things, merely excellent salesmanship.
To give you an example, may I use myself?
I purchased a mouthpiece made for me from one that I had chanced upon, and copied by this maker, a respected seller.
It played well, but so too had the mouthpiece I had received in a trade.
It was a very covered sound and one that I preferred, having been for years a light and bright-toned player.
Then after a while, I found the measurements and sent them to a friend who is truly a mouthpiece expert.
He replied that these numbes were the same as the facing of the mouthpiece purportedly used by Harold Wright.
He didn't say, "good, bad or indifferent", just stated those numbers and the similarity.
As soon as I received his information, I was very excited. Harold Wright was always my idol,even from as far back as when he played first in Washington. The sound he made was my goal, so to have the same specs that he had was exciting, even at 73 years, with more than 50 in the business, that is saying something, don't you think? I know that I have a good mouthpiece, from the tuning the response and the sound that I hear.
And to know that a gorgeous player had the same mouthpiece makes one feel good.
Anyway, I wish you all well, and save your money, take care of your teeth, and your chops. Oh yes, practice, and take all auditions. All. When you play an audition, you are proving yourself, and while there are more and more clarinetists and fewer and fewer jobs , I hope that all will find a place. Keep working.
best for the New Year.
Sherman Friedland
Post Edited (2006-12-31 23:28)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: skygardener
Date: 2006-12-31 15:35
Sherman,
I agree 100% (and more, if it were possible). There are far too many makers that seem to be competing with eachother with essentially the same product with a different name on the label.
I have always tested products by asking my self and others around me, "How do I sound with this?" Not this or that spokes-person, but me.
I have actually found that the stock Buffet barrels are just as good or better than the "fancy" barrels.
Has anyone ever looked on some produce? There are stickers that say "Fancy Lemon" or "Fancy Grapes". I think that we have the same situation in music products.
-S
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mags1957
Date: 2006-12-31 16:00
<playing devil's advocate>
BUT, if the new toy makes you think you sound better, maybe that is an important mental component. Who's to say that newfound confidence in your sound isn't worth the money? And if it feels better to you, even if there's no difference in sound, maybe you will play better? Even Sherman, who I respect greatly, admits that the newfound knowledge that his mouthpiece was just like Harold's made him play so well that he was freaking out!
And skygardner, what I meant is that while the Backun products (or any other for that matter) may point me in one direction of sound, they may point you in another - I just don't think there is a Backun "sound" per se. I was standing 10 feet away from Ricardo Morales and Julian Bliss about 10 days ago (at the Leblanc boothe at the Midwest Clinic), and I can tell you they sounded completely different, even playing on the exact same display clarinet. So Backun products didn't point their sounds in the same direction at all. I think the products just help you to sound more like the sound that's in your head - of course your mileage may vary, but I'm a fan.
I have reviewed reeds, ligatures, mouthpieces and barrels on this site, and in every review, I have always stated that the way something feels is very important to me. So if I change ligatures, I am under no pretense at all that there is a perceivable difference to the listener. BUT if the ligature offers a resistance I like a bit better, or seems to make articulation easier, then it's still a valid reason for me to use it. I would say the same about any mouthpiece, bell, etc., although quite honestly I feel that my Backun barrel and mouthpiece do make a definate and perceivable difference.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-12-31 16:30
>>I don't think one can classify a piece of equipment as having a particular "sound". Do you think that all players who play on Backun barrels and bells sound alike? I think not.
>>
Exactly. No disrespect intended against any manufacturer of equipment. I like high-quality equipment as much as the next clarinet junkie, and naturally some stuff works better for me than other stuff. But this thread and others like it remind me of an anecdote about the violinist Jascha Heifetz. A woman approached him backstage after a concert, where he had played a Stradivarius, and she said to him, "Your violin has such a wonderful tone!"
Heifetz held the violin off to one side, regarded it for a moment and said, "That's funny. I don't hear a thing."
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2006-12-31 16:45
Personally, I play what works for me. Period.
I don't care about hype or marketing. It doesn't matter who plays it or likes it. I trust my ears, my tastes and the results I get.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: JTS
Date: 2006-12-31 17:02
skygardener: I had some of the same concerns with backun bells and barrels for along time. I felt that while improving certain aspects, I lost a lot by way of color and flexibility. I did however find a barrel that works well for me; it was a Morrales Backun with a thinner profile than the normal MoBa Barrels and had also been re-bored as to have a more extreme taper on the top and bottom. I do think that most people who have a strong concept will find their voice on pretty much any equipment, but I also think its worth it to find the equipment that makes it easiest.
JTS
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mags1957
Date: 2006-12-31 17:16
JTS wrote:
> I do think that most people who have a strong concept will find their voice on pretty much any equipment, but I also think its worth it to find the equipment that makes it easiest. >
> JTS
Couldn't have said it better myself - bravo!
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Phil O'Connor
Date: 2006-12-31 20:34
Back to the subject of the MOUTHPIECES..............................
Whether or not something works for someone or not another, is inconsequential. The important matter is to face facts. Does it make YOU sound better in tune, with better articulation, and a shape of sound that can be flexible and portray the aspects of tone required by the music. One does not have a dark/bright/reedy/edgy/covered/supple/round/fat/thin tone all the time. If they do, then they are not doing what the MUSIC asks them to do. Anyone whom makes a living performing music, has the responsibility to decifer what the music asks you to do, and DELIVER the goods. It is a PLURALITY. Plain and simple. One piece of equipment can not do this for you. You need imagination, creativity, experience, brainpower, heart, determination, practice time, wit, intellect, humilty, confidence, and a thousand other qualities to have a chance. This is what ANY great artist, (be it music, or otherwise) will at one point or another realize in their quest, if they are ever to truly achieve greatness........At least it is worth the effort to STRIVE FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!! If the piece of rubber at the top of the clarinet allows you ease of mind in achieving some of these things................(disclaimer::::I like the mouthpieces I have from Morrie, and use them alot.....) The thing I would say is this: spend hours practicing, and finding AMAZING reeds to perform on, so should you have the opportunity to do so. Again, one person's treasure is another person's garbage. Just because a friend of mine loves the reed they are using, doesn't make it magical for all forms of music. It is important for all of us to move forward in music making, not backward in our thinking, for what it is worth. Happy New Year- and may 2007 provide excellent opportunities for your music making, and dedication to the ART of music. Now I gotta go find a reed....................
|
|
|
|
|
Author: bufclar
Date: 2006-12-31 22:29
The thing I find most confusing is how can Backun charge 500 for a mouthpiece made from a Zinner blank?
We already have top makers in Smith, Fobes, Hawkins, Grabner, Behn, Lomax that have all been at it for quite sometime. Smith and Hawkins also happen to be world class players as well. I' m not trying to say that the Backuns are not good (i have not even tried them) but the price combined with the fact that they are Zinner blanks just like everyone else uses makes me want to stay away from them. I mean you can buy a Zinner blank from Muncy winds for 49.95!
I would much rather trust the experience as a player and maker like Smith or Hawkins then buy one from Backun who has no history as a mouthpiece maker and pay more for it. Does Morrie even play clarinet?
I'm not trying to be negative or slight anyone in the clarinet world rather a maker or player but I just don't get it. Morries prices are outlandish and while his products may be good for some I just can't justify or understand his price structure.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2006-12-31 22:38
bufclar wrote:
> The thing I find most confusing is how can Backun charge 500
> for a mouthpiece made from a Zinner blank?
[ We've been down this road MANY times. Pricing structure is what it is. Case closed. Your concerns would be best answered by Morrie. Perhaps you should discuss it with him. - GBK ]
|
|
|
|
|
Author: inspiring musician
Date: 2006-12-31 22:57
try the mouthpieces for yourself, but i think youll love them!
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2007-01-01 16:02
Long and windy threads like this make it clear (again and again) just how subjective mouthpiece preferences are.
As for outlandish prices, try a few, you might find your dream piece and then $500 will seem a bargain!
The renowned Jacques Lancelot used a Van Doren 5RV Lyre and a blue box 2 1/2 all of his later career.
Windy and repetitive as these threads are, they're amusing and sometimes informative.
Happy New Year guys!
Clarinet Redux
|
|
|
|
|
Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-01-02 11:21
bufclar wrote:
"The thing I find most confusing is how can Backun charge 500 for a mouthpiece made from a Zinner blank?"
It is really not that confusing. Think of it this way; a Honda and an Alpha Romeo both use about the same raw materials, but the price is different.
-S
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-02 11:30
skygardener wrote:
> It is really not that confusing. Think of it this way; a Honda
> and an Alpha Romeo both use about the same raw materials, but
> the price is different.
It's confusing to me. The base mouthpiece costs essentially the same to anyone, the amount of time to hand-finish is essentially the same if hand-finishing is involved, and if one is machine-finishing the amount of time to program the machine and the cost of the machine should be amortized over time & quantity since the only reason for using a machine is for speed and consistency.
The intrinsic value of any mouthpiece is only related to what people will pay - real material and finishing costs seem to have no relationship to customer costs.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-01-02 12:13
Mark: I dunno 'bout that . . . if I and some renowned artist spend about the same amount of time setting up an easel, putting a canvas on it, getting out our paints and brushes, etc. and we both spend about the same amount of time and effort painting a picture, the artist must be putting something in the product that I don't. The artist is giving people a perceived value in his painting for which they will pay thousands of dollars - I would most likely have to pay someone (i.e. the trashman) to haul away my painting . . . not even my mother would take it.
So, like the difference between the Honda and Alfa Romeo, the artist has done something more than I did, using the same raw materials and effort, producing a product that the buyers want and for which they are willing to pay a large price. True, there is a big subjective element involved in art, as in mouthpieces, but apparently a significant number of people find a big enough difference in our two products that the artist can command a price for his work that I can't.
Were it otherwise, I would start selling $500 Smith mouthpieces posthaste.
Eu
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-02 12:44
EuGeneSee wrote:
> The artist is giving people a
> perceived value in his painting for which they will pay
> thousands of dollars -
That I agree with, however ...
I don't consider a machine an artist ... perhaps I'm just "old school".
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-02 12:46
EuGeneSee wrote:
> So, like the difference between the Honda and Alfa Romeo,
Just a nit - I've owned an Alfa, and it's anything but a mechanical work of art. Biggest and most expensive piece of non-functional art I've ever owned.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-01-02 13:05
Mark: I, too, owned an Alfa. When it ran, the zippy little rascal would sure get around, but, lo, it never could pass a mechanic. Not as bad as an XKE, however. Eu
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2007-01-02 15:05
Mark wrote:
"I don't consider a machine an artist ... perhaps I'm just "old school"."
It does however take an artist to have the vision and design and then oversee the production of a great product. The machine is merely a tool, much as the painters brush.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-01-02 15:09
Post Edited (2008-01-23 04:35)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-02 15:19
Ed wrote:
> It does however take an artist to have the vision and design
> and then oversee the production of a great product. The machine
> is merely a tool, much as the painters brush.
I see that person as a technician rather than an artist. In machine-made paint brushes consistency and low cost are the end results and goal. It's packaged and sent out en masse. As you say, it's just a tool.
If the brush is one that is hand adjusted and set up by a person - for a person - I see the brush as something made by an artisan for an artist. Even if both the mass-produced and hand-adjusted ones start out with the same materials, the one incorporating feedback and skills of the artisan will be more than "just a tool".
|
|
|
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-01-02 15:45
Not sure what it has to do with clarinets, but I had to chime in upon seeing disparaging Alfa Romeo automobile remarks --- I love 'em, currently own two, have had three others in the past. Much prefer them to R-13s and Mozart clarinet works -- so there! Nanny-nanny boo-boo!
![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2007-01-02 16:02
To make my point clear- I was talking about the machine AND the painters brush both being a tool in producing their craft, not about making paint brushes.
In addition, probably 15 or so years back Buffet spent a great deal in having their clarinet manufacturing mechanized. They have a worderful state of the art machine that will bore a tone hole, switch drills, turn the joint, bore another hole, etc, and complete the entire joint all by itself. I was at the factory and saw this machine at work. They were very proud of it. I attempted to take a picture of it and they stopped me, telling me that they spent a tremendous amount on it and that they considered it nearly a trade secret at the time. It saved them in time and labor and greatly standardized their instruments and enabled them to move forward in their mass production of clarinets.
Did we see any great price drop from Buffet due to their great advancement in mass production as is suggested in this thread?
|
|
|
|
|
Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-01-02 16:20
"Did we see any great price drop from Buffet due to their great advancement in mass production as is suggested in this thread?"
No. But we did see a drop in quality of the instrument!
This gets to my confusion about the mouthpieces and mabye I should contact Morrie to ask about it. It seems to me that they are produced the same way as a Vandoren mouthpiece is so it's really just a Zinner based mouthpiece produced like a Vandoren with the whole boundry layer thing added to it. Doesn't sound like it should cost so much?
Post Edited (2007-01-02 16:28)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2007-01-02 16:35
There's a lot of complaints bout the price of Backun mouthpieces etc.
But somebody must be buying them. I wonder how many they really sell at that price over a year.
It's hard to believe there's hundreds, let alone thousand of naive players who would spring $500 for such a thing.
Clarinet Redux
|
|
|
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-01-02 16:54
The cost is the cost - if it does wonders for you, you like it, you can afford it, then buy it. All things musical return to the cost/ benefit ratio which must be determined by the player. Often the R & D costs must be reflected in finished products that do not involve just the cost of producing the product itself, but sometimes there is just the "Snob" factor of an expensive item that does not mimic the actual total manufacturing and R & D costs. I have not tried any of Morrie's mouthpieces but obviously others have and have liked them enough to spend the money while others feel that the cost is prohibitive for the benefit. My own clarinet playing is limited more by a lack of God given talent, and the time to practice than by equipment.
L. Omar Henderson
|
|
|
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-01-02 17:23
"It's hard to believe there's hundreds, let alone thousand of naive players who would spring $500 for such a thing."
Are you kidding? There are many hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people buying tons of crap they pay too much for every day. $500 for a mouthpiece is nothing in comparison really.
By the way, what I wrote is general and has nothing to do with the quality or value of Backun mouthpieces, which I've never tried.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-02 17:41
Old Geezer wrote:
> It's hard to believe there's hundreds, let alone thousand of
> naive players who would spring $500 for such a thing.
I don't believe most of the players are naive; far from it ... for whatever reason, people seem to be generally happy with their purchase. I have better ways to spend $500 (and I'm proving it right now by not spending $500 for a mouthpiece ) but others are getting the full benefit of their money.
Ponce de Leon never did find the fountain of youth, but Orlando Disneyworld is close ...
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mary Jo
Date: 2007-01-02 18:56
Like Mr. Charette, I find better use for my money sometimes. Such high prices for specialized musical instrument accessories impress me to the point of considering the worth of the particular instrument I'd intend to use them with. After a reality check, I usually settle for taking a brand new reed out of the box and slapping it on a $50 custom mouthpiece that plays easily and sweetly.
I do think, however, that to many people--especially those of retirement age with an adversion to winter--Florida is the fountain of youth and somewhere in that sunshine state, there ought to be a statue of the great explorer with a cocked black hat with mouse ears.
Mary Jo
|
|
|
|
|
Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2007-01-02 23:09
Assuming that Mr. Backun is running a business, the only constraint on cost and price is the price > cost. But a business has more costs than the material and labor (and plant and equipment costs to support the manufacturing...i.e. manufacturing overhead). This cost is for most businesses between 20% and 75% of the price (low --> high volume products accordingly). If the business is successful selling mouthpieces at $500, then that's the price. If not, then something will change.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-02 23:21
shmuelyosef wrote:
> Assuming that Mr. Backun is running a business, the only
> constraint on cost and price is the price > cost. But a
> business has more costs than the material and labor (and plant
> and equipment costs to support the manufacturing...i.e.
> manufacturing overhead).
I'm well aware of business costs, having helped start 2 successful businesses.
Labor is almost always the most expensive part of any business, which is why you use equipment rather than labor to produce finished product. The cost of equipment (and the cost of money to purchase equipment) is normally amortized over some period of time less than the lifespan of the equipment, but for a period long enough to keep prices competitive.
High prices (x2 or x3 over what was the high end) indicates a "cachet" price. Nothing wrong with that ... It would be as if what was a high end clarinet which costs around $2500 was now in competition with a clarinet costing $6000 ...
Hmmmm ...
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2007-01-02 23:45
"It would be as if what was a high end clarinet which costs around $2500 was now in competition with a clarinet costing $6000 .."
Yeah, I don't know how Buffet expects to sell both the R-13 AND the Tosca ;-)
Post Edited (2007-11-25 14:32)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2007-01-03 20:54
Isn't Toyota buying out Ford???
Also don y'all think maybe Buffet is in a bit of trouble...??? Just how can the market support a new Buffet model...
David Dow
|
|
|
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
