 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2006-09-16 02:03
Any one recognize the clarinet Mr.Brymer holding on the cover of Yehudi Menuhin music guides' clarinet book?(ISBN 0-02-871440-7)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-09-16 02:14
Without the book in front of me, I'm going to say it's a Boosey and Hawkes Symphony 1010. That's how I remember it anyway. Brymer was one to have one of the most quintessential "British Sounds." He did it with the large bore Booseys.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2006-09-16 02:54
Does B & H 1010 look similar to Peter Eaton clarinet?
From P.E website it looks almost identical.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-09-16 03:02
Yes, Eaton in fact offers a "Boosey Copy" since Buffet bought out Boosey and the 1010s are no longer produced.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-09-16 04:47
I have an Eaton clarinet, and I saw that picture many times, and I always thought it was an Eaton clarinet. Though if that picture was taken before the late 80s (and I think it was) then it can't be an Eaton, so I guess B&H is right.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2006-09-16 15:14
It's a Boosey 1010 with the acton vent mechanism common in the 70s. The mechianism was slightly different in the late 60s. My old 1010s both had acton vent but the Bb was 1972 and the A was 1969, the two sytems were different. The edition of the book i have is 1979, the year of my birth. I do miss my 1010s but can't fault my Eatons.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-16 16:01
I had someone literally bite both my hands off to get my (1982) 1010 when I let her try it out one day - and pleased to say she's over the moon with it as she was struggling a bit with her Emperor.
Shame as I wanted to keep it as I got rather fond of playing it (as I found the right set-up that did it justice), and I was about to do some keywork alterations on it as well (add a left hand forked Eb and LH Ab/Eb lever) so I could use it for special occasions rather than using my Series 9 Selmers (which are pretty heavy being full Boehms), but it's new owner is happy with it just as it is.
They're much lighter in weight than Peter Eaton clarinets, even though Peter Eaton doesn't fit the Acton vent.
Funny in that it shows the back of the bottom joint (and the Acton vent), but both the 'Made In England' stamp and serial number aren't visible in Fig. 33.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-09-16 16:40
Chris P,
My Bb has an EXTRAORDINARILY sharp chalameu "A" (below the staff) and "B". Is there a fix for this, or is this horn just a clunker?
............the perpetually mystified,
..........................Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-09-16 16:52
Paul, how are the same notes but with register E and F# intonation-wise?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-16 17:06
Paul,
I think the lower register notes were slightly sharp in comparison to the upper register - only I can't tell as I don't have a 1010 to try them out, and most 1010 players I know of aren't in my area. I used to play it with the barrel pulled out around 1.5mm - 2mm to put it in tune with itself.
But if the upper register E and F# are also sharp you could always fill the upper part of the chimneys with Blu-Tack to flatten them.
What mouthpiece are you using?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-09-16 17:08)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-09-16 17:15
Chris P and Clarnibass,
The issue is ONLY with the lower twelfth. I had a few Brymer mouthpieces but the ones that worked best for me are the standard 1010s. The "A" clarinet only had a very slight tendency toward this pitch anomaly. Anyway, the fascination with the "British School" of thought had faded many years ago, it's more that I never found anyone willing to take them off my hands.
Wish I had access to Eaton mouthpieces back then.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-16 17:27
The 'British School' sound has largely faded over here in the UK as well, pretty much since the R13 became the standard instrument - not sure if it was out of choice, it's just what B&H were supplying instead since they stopped clarinet production.
Even most 1010 players I know of don't make the characteristic 1010 sound associated with Jack Brymer, nor do they seem to play in the dignified and relaxed manner that he did.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: RobinEarle
Date: 2006-09-19 17:47
I suppose clarinet sounds are a matter of passing fashions and also what people are required to produce professionally. I have played 1010s since 1969 and have never regretted it. I have always liked the Brymer sound - one which only the 1010s can assist in achieving. [Brymer was a one off -and that is the secret of a good sound - sound like yourself]
However, I do believe that no instrument is perfect, and have recently been investigating the effects of the Moennig barrel. I also have a pair of Boosey and Hawkes 926s - which this barrel fitted (no chance for the 1010s) and the effect seemed to lift the sound - as others have observed - by raising the left hand 12ths. Perhaps the venturi affect intensifies the airstream sufficiently to take away the relatively dull upper notes and the flattish break notes. I am now contemplating having a custom Moennig barrel made for my 1010s to see if this will assist the problem not only of 1010s but other more 'respectable' clarinets. If any one knows of an English instrument maker who could undertake such a job I would be happy to hear from them.
Incidentally - if your bottom A is sharp maybe the mouthpiece has not been adapted to the 1010 bore - which is .600'' rather than the more usual .593'' or so. It's just a thought.
Greetings to all in Clarinetland - Robin Earle UK
robinearle22@gmail.com
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Author: RobinEarle
Date: 2006-09-23 15:09
Thanks for the advice concerning 1010 barrels. I have already contacted Howarths in London, who can custom make Moennig type barrels - but their thinking is that whilst it may work on the companion Boosey and Hawkes 926 they are extremely doubtful as to the viability of such barrels on the larger bored 1010 clarinets.
Certainly the Peter Eaton clarinets do create that British sound - as can be heard on Ian Scott's excellent first record of British Clarinet Concertos. However, having briefly played a Peter Eaton clarinet I came to the conclusion that the perfection of design and construction made playing the instrument too easy - which I know is not a conclusion, merely a snapshot opinion. However, by this I believe that the inherent character of a slightly imperfect clarinet stands above that of a clarinet with many of the kinks ironed out.
Listening to Reginald Kell on his Martels reminds me that it is the artistry of a musician that stands out rather than the instruments be they 'in fashion' or not. However, I shall never forget Jack Brymer's rendition of the Mozart Concerto at the Proms in the 1960s - and thats why I like that particular 'sound'. However it is the English sound - reflecting the English character no doubt. I also like Jimmy Giuffre - now theres a thought!
robinearle22@gmail.com
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2006-09-23 16:12
I to enjoyed the 'English' sound, one of the reasons for playing 1010s in the first place but also because my first teacher had a pair for sale while i was still at school. Whilst going through music college everyone said I sould change to Buffets etc, but I held through and really love my Eatons. I wouldn't say they are easy to play.
It is a shame that clarinet playing in this Country has become far to 'standardised'. This always puts me at a disadvantage at auditions for orchestral positions because my sound is not that of a Buffet, most orchestras in this country now want that Buffet sound. My sound is not like the traditional English School due to players if studied with, but it's not standardised like that of the Buffet (in the most general terms as everyone plays differently), but it's my sound. I believe wide bore instruments show the personality of the player. Jack Brymer said this, and he said this to me when I had some lessons from him in 97.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: jamie talbot
Date: 2006-09-25 12:49
I started on 1010s, changed to R13s for nine years and went back to 1010s
which I play now.I don't think I,ll ever go back to French bore clarinets but
of course it's down to personal preference.
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2007-04-06 19:55
Surely it depends in whose hands the Eatons (ir any other clarinets) repose.
Easy to distinguish the 1010's from Eatons. The barrel rings (indeed all rings) are absolutely flat on the 1010's.
Like Peter, love my Eatons (Elites- wide bore). Surely ease of playing and intonation is a bonus and one can concentrate on musicality without constant technical adjustment. This is not to say that some personal variation of fingerings might not arise !
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2007-04-07 09:47
My Brymer book has a painting on the cover, hard to see what type of clarinet it is, specially because the hands of the player are upside down (left hand -> lower part of the clarinet) :-)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2007-04-10 15:31
Boosey stopped clarinet production in the early 80s and promptly bought Buffet which turned out to be a great fiasco.
Sadly it meant the quick death of the Boosey and Hawkes clarinet sound. Some of the older 1010s were very good and have great sound....they also had a tendency to play quite sharp given the mouthpiece and reed combo. They also required a fair bit of air so control was quite tricky from day to day....I always loved the wonderfuol sound Brymer got on the Aleko from Rachmaninoff...such soulful playing and very expressive. alas...sound and styles do change and therefore I think it odd how we still think in terms of American...British schools of thought....there is such a wide variance now within every country of playing styles I hate to describe a performer by school.
David Dow
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