 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-04-23 11:55
Hiya everyone
This is a question for the pros among us: How long did it take you to go from high school level to professional level? Did you study abroad or stay in one place? Do you have a degree? Masters, PhD? How many orchestras did you audition for before gaining a position? All over the world or just locally? How much time did you spend on excerpts, technique, solo pieces?
I'm just curious more than anything. I'm at the end of an undergrad and don't really know where to next...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-04-23 18:15
I don't really have an answer to your specific question but, notice some people are already professionals while in high school! 
Also, I would consider if playing clarinet in a professional orchestra is really what you want to do, but that depends more on you personality so don't let me discourage you of course! It's possible that it will be the perfect job for you.
If I'm not mistaken Michael Lowenstern, who plays/played prodessionaly in an orchestra but also does many other things, wrote something very interesting about it a few weeks ago on the New Bass Clarinet Group. Mark/GBK - Do I need his permission to quote it here?
[ Please use a link - GBK ]
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: YCL-450
Date: 2006-04-23 22:23
Hiya everyone
This is a question for the pros among us: How long did it take you to go from high school level to professional level? Did you study abroad or stay in one place? Do you have a degree? Masters, PhD? How many orchestras did you audition for before gaining a position? All over the world or just locally? How much time did you spend on excerpts, technique, solo pieces?
I'm just curious more than anything. I'm at the end of an undergrad and don't really know where to next...
As a complete beginner I'd like to know how long it took to go from complete beginner to high school level.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2006-04-24 00:29
Clarnibass,
I'm sure you can post a link to that forum and thread, provided it's a public forum. Because if he posted it up there, it was intended to be public, but at least you won't be reproducing it, just pointing us in the direction.
How long did it take me to become a professional? Ask me again in about twenty years
Alexi - Who is no longer the textbook definition of an amateur, but is still nowhere close to being on par with the big boys and girls that he considers to be "professionals".
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: vin
Date: 2006-04-24 04:03
When I was just getting serious about the clarinet at sixteen,a teacher told me it takes most people about 8 to 10 years of hardcore practice to be able to play on a good professional level. Of course, in a way, music and the clarinet take a lifetime to master, but I now see what he meant and I think he's about right.
Gunther Schuller says it takes six months of five hours a day of practice to realize your technical potential. The trick is not getting tendonitis.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-04-24 05:33
Well, to read it you do need to have a yahoo account, and be a member of the new bass clarinet group. If I gave a link anyone who doesn't have those can't read it. I can't thing of any reason why he want the people on that group to see it but not the people here, and it sounded like he would be happy that as many people as possible will read it.
So, either I get permission to quote it here, and if not, you should join the Yahoo New Bass Clarinet Group and look for his post (if you join and have trouble finding the post I can help).
Edit: Thanks GBK, didn't realize it was a public group.
Post Edited (2006-04-24 06:56)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2006-04-24 06:13
clarnibass wrote:
> Well, to read it you do need to have a yahoo account, and be a
> member of the new bass clarinet group. If I gave a link anyone
> who doesn't have those can't read it. I can't thing of any
> reason why he want the people on that group to see it but not
> the people here, and it sounded like he would be happy that as
> many people as possible will read it.
> So, either I get permission to quote it here, and if not, you
> should join the Yahoo New Bass Clarinet Group and look for his
> post (if you join and have trouble finding the post I can
> help).
[ The New Bass Clarinet group is a public group. No membership is required. Here is the link to Lowenstern's post:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/NewBassClarinetGroup/message/825 - GBK ]
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2006-04-24 19:58
I heard an interview with an athlete on the radio and she said it takes about 10,000 hours of work to reach a pro level. That sounds about right for music too. If you practice 3 hours a day it would take between 9 and 10 years. Of course if you don't work on weekends, holidays, vacations, etc it will take even longer.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rgames
Date: 2006-04-25 01:43
> This is a question for the pros among us: How long did it take you to go
> from high school level to professional level? Did you study abroad or stay
> in one place? Do you have a degree? Masters, PhD?
That's a tough question to answer, mainly because the "pro" qualifier is overused. I would say, though, that most "pro" musicians become so after some college-level training.
As far as advanced degrees go, just take a look at your favorite musicians and see how far they advanced in school. I'm going to hazard a guess and say that very few have post-graduate degrees.
rgames
____________________________
Richard G. Ames
Composer - Arranger - Producer
www.rgamesmusic.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-04-25 04:35
Pro, to me, means employed by an orchestra/ensemble of the highest standard full-time and that entry into that position was competitive in nature.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-04-25 06:44
I would really equate it with
A) the amount of time you practice
B) the quality of your practice
C) the quality of your instruction
Practicing should be hard work. You should listen to everything that comes out of your instrument. If you make a mistake on anything mark it (you BETTER have a pencil on your stand.....keep in mind that amateurs remember...pros write it down). Listen to the intonation of every note and strive to put every pitch dead-on when it first comes out of your horn. Don't get lulled into a mechanical attitude when running through Baermann or Kroepsch or Rose...they're supposed to sound good, too. Listen to enough clarinettists live and in recordings to get a concept of the sounds people make on the instrument. Find a good teacher who will help you realize your goals.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: frank
Date: 2006-04-25 18:13
There is no real time frame. Some players mature more quickly than others. Ending college is a difficult time if you are not ready for an orchestral or military gig. Teaching is an option. It's a very competitive scene to make a living. Gigs are extremely harder to come by (full time, steady). I recommend getting an MBA and hoping for the best. Follow your dreams though! When you make a living playing the clarinet, you are a pro... it's that simple! lol Good luck in your journey.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2006-04-25 21:46
One year.
You can identify your ability relative to your goal.
I recognized I could not become a Heifetz. I play instruments(flute,clarinet,sax,trumpet) for myself, not for other people. It's enough.
Post Edited (2006-04-25 22:08)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-04-25 23:01
See I could probably get into the military band here. I was going to audition for an opening halfway through my degree but decided I'm better off staying and getting my qualification and the military band system is not for me. And that's not open to reconsideration; a friend of mine and, believe it or not, my father, went through the basic training to join army/RAAF bands recently and their experiences have reaffirmed that it's not for me.
I really want a career on the orchestral scene. Right now I'm principal of my university orchestra and my local youth orchestra, won it's internal concerto competition last year, and this year we're touring China. But what intrigues me is how you get from youth orchestra to pro orchestra. The only way I can think of is to work part-time in a steady job with good money (luckily, I have one of these!) and next year, once I've finished my degree, have lessons, practice like crazy, gain as much experiences as I can, save money to travel to and from auditions. Right?
Anyway I don't actually wanna make this thread about me! Did anyone else complete a degree and go "Oh, crap..." and what did you do to 'make it'? Did undergrad prepare you for what's out there?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-04-26 13:51
You know, there's that old saw (in the U.S., at least),
Q: "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?"
A: "Practice, practice, practice."
If you're serious about knowing how others have achieved their positions, so that you may go and do likewise, you might actually make yourself a list of the names and addresses (through their places of employment or their agents) of a number of the "professionals" you admire, and write to them, asking about the path they followed to their achievement. Or, go somewhere where orchestral musicians hang out, and strike up a conversation.
There are numerous stories about major players who did not pursue the academic/audition route -- or took a detour along the way. In my field (oboe), both Ray Still and Joe Robinson come to mind as individuals who got their "big" jobs (Chicago and New York) in a non-traditional fashion. But that was years ago, and I don't know if that happens anymore.
I would imagine that getting into an advanced program (perhaps a performance degree?) would be a step in the right direction. But I also suspect that just getting out and playing, playing, playing at every opportunity, getting yourself and your ambitions known (aka, "networking"), would be an integral part of the process, as well. You can't just "think" yourself into this career, or wait to be discovered.
Best wishes,
Susan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2006-04-26 22:05
Morrigan, you need to pay someone to take out the clarinetists in your local ABC orchestra (I jest) ... theses jobs come up so seldom that it's a depressing scenario for someone aspiring to be a professional.
As to the RAAF/Navy bands, they are very fine musicians, but the military side of things is also a big problem if you're not the "butch, masculine, he-man" they want. I heard the RAAF band play in Sydney on ANZAC day and they were thrilling, to be sure.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-04-27 15:33
In the US military bands, military and music tend to get in the way of each other......On the older system, brilliant musicians were promoted to a point where they became supervisors....a grave disservice because they stopped playing (when they were very good) and had to supervise (which they were generally less good at).
In the newer system you are promoted based on how well you take a test that is absolutely meaningless.
The worst thing about military bands is you play a lot of ceremonies and are forced to listen to a large number of boring, interminable speeches. I loved playing but I hated doing ceremonies so much that it was the biggest factor in my decision to leave.
-Randy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
