 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kay
Date: 2006-04-20 01:34
Ok, so I know a lot of the whole "what clarinet to get" question can be contained in trying out various clarinets and finding an individual preference. Thus, I am not asking for a recommendation on a clarinet. I simply want to know the advantages and disadvantages of each of these three Bb clarinets: Buffet R13, Buffet Vintage R13, and Buffet R13 Greenline.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2006-04-20 01:48
The main differences between the Greenlines and the NON-greenlines is the material that they are made up of. R13 and R13 Vintages are african blackwood. The Greenline is a composite wood. From what I've read, it's mostly the leftover blackwood (the 'waste') from making other clarinets, mixed with some sort of resin, and compressed under pressure to a hard block. Then that block of composite substance is worked through just as a regular clarinet would be (with the boring of wood, milling of tone-holes, etc. etc.)
A big advantage for the greenline would be that it simply won't crack under the conditions that would crack a 'normal' wooden clarinet. Very durable to the elements and temperature changes.
As to the Vintage R13, there are various differences. You can do a search on the board to find out the specifics of what exactly was changed on the vintage (one notable one I remember was the moving of the register key tone hole).
But like you said, try 'em all. As per those discussions as to whether a greenline sounds as good as a regular R13 or not, I've had the opportunity to try a few greenlines over the past few weeks and they surprised me as to how they sounded (good surprise). Some sounded VERY nice (IMO).
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2006-04-20 12:12
The last batch (2005) that I played of these three variants were:
The Standard R13 and Greenline were so similar as to be a toss-up.
(Had I played them in the dark, I could not distinguish one.)
They were well set up, so they "spoke" readily throughout, but the throat felt flat to me...
The Vintage model was pretty stuffy on the longest notes, VERY resistant across the break and tuned beautifully. It did not seem particularly flat in the throat and my tuner agreed (within 7 cents of absolute at A=440).
*****
I would say that a second hand greenline clarinet may be a relative bargain, if you can find one. They don't hold the same resale value as grenadilla.
For what it's worth, I'm still playing a hard rubber clarinet that is MUCH easier to play, when I double (which is all the time).
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-04-20 13:23
I haven't played a R13 Greenline, but I have played the Tosca, RC, RC Prestige, and Festival models all in wood and Greenline. I could not notice a specific difference between all grenadillas and greenlines. If there was, then the difference between different instruments of the same model (which was almost non-existent) was bigger.
I've tried them all in a convention so I only compared sound and feel and could not really examine intonation and very subtle differences.
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-04-21 01:16
In my opinion greenline's are indistinguishable from R-13's, except that they are a trifle heavier. I played one in the Navy and loved it.
Incidentally, since they can use pretty lousy wood for the greenlines, and don't require choice billets of wood, using composite instruments can help ease the pressure we are placing on the mpingo tree...we don't want to overfarm the wood we owe our existence to.....
Sorry.....had a crunchy moment there.
-Randy
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Author: Neil
Date: 2006-04-21 02:19
I don't think the day is too far off when we'll have professional clarinets made from a horrorshow synthetic substance which is mechanically and acoustically superior to wood. We'll look back on wooden horns the way we look back at wooden dentures.
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Author: nickma
Date: 2006-04-21 11:05
Mmmm, maybe....not.
It's the same debate that continues in the fine wine world around closures. The underlying issue for wine producers is cork quality, cork taint, and the increasing percentage of ruined bottles caused by the effect of pollution on the cork oaks that produce the raw material. in other words, it's not perfectly reliable.
In clarinet instrument manufacture, for cork read wood and its susceptibility to cracking.
A few years ago the producers hailed a compositite plastic cork substitute as the answer to their problems. A few years on, those wines have become tainted by the plastic. Then came crown closures. Then came a new kind of more breathable cork substitute. It's too early to tell how wine will mature in these type of closures.
Then there is the acceptability and esthetic factors. Will wine enthusiasts be prepared to pay top dollar for a wine with a synthetic closure? Probably not. There is an esthetic to musical instruments too. Was the Grafton sax rejected because it was rubbish or because it was plastic?
Of course, there are no cut and dried answers, but I would bet the bank that wooden esthetics, and the unknowable sonorous qualities of wood that are beyond measurement and which we describe in terms of colour, resonance, ring, centre etc.. will ensure that the best clarinet are primarily made from wood for the forseeable decades to come.
Nick
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Author: nickma
Date: 2006-04-23 21:12
R13 Vintage models are really wonderful. They tune amazingly well, have a more profound bottom end in my view, and yes, they are a shade more resistant than a modern R13. No big deal. The Vintage I recently played is the best Buffet I have ever tried.
Nick
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-04-25 07:26
Laugh all you like.......reading (and rereading and rereading) clockwork orange actually helped me quite a bit in first semester Russian
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Author: BornAgainClarinetist
Date: 2006-04-25 17:18
Honestly... If you were to find a good R13 then send it to brannen woodwinds to customize it and make 10 times better than from when you first selected it, you'd be "crazy happy".
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