 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-02 14:58
Hi Everyone,
I need a little advice on a challenging situation that I have just encountered. For better or worse, I have agreed to be the much needed librarian for my local community band (a good group of about 55 to 60 players on any night). During the past weeks, I have begun to deal with a huge backlog of librarian tasks that do not seem to have been done for many years (BTW, I have been librarian for several musical groups in the past and I have many, many years experience as a HS band and choir director so I know the ropes).
All was going well until I began to pass out music last week. I play clarinet and we have about 12 players evenly distributed between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. All the other sections have about standard distribution so parts are pretty much available. In most cases, two-to-a-stand is about as bad as it gets except there is an unusual situation on the flute section.
It seems that over many years, the flutes have taken it on themselves to have anywhere from 5 to as many as 10 separate folders for the section of about 12 players; there are just 5 hardback band folders embossed the band’s name on them. The other folders seem to be of the hand-made variety and contain copied parts (are you beginning to get the picture).
My position, as the librarian, is that I will to do only two things:
1. Pass out only enough pieces of music for the hardback folders that have the band’s name on them; any extra parts will be kept by me as extra parts (I am willing to bend on this one a little if there are actually extra parts from the publisher).
2. I will never make nor pass out any copy of a piece of music except as specified in copyright law as an "emergency" (am I being overly cautious?).
Boy, have I encountered open hostility from the flute section. Cries of “we have done it this way for 20 years” to “you are a very nasty man” have made for an awkward as well as an unpleasant situation (all other sections have been wonderful BTW). The copy right laws are very clear on “emergency parts” and “no copied parts for a performance.” The director is very clear and supportive on my two points above and has said “let the librarian do his job!”
Any advice from others on how you’ve successfully dealt with any similar situations?
HRL
PS If I get mugged in the parking lot after a rehearsal, it was probably the flutes!
Post Edited (2005-02-02 15:44)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-02-02 15:18
Everyone gets a part, whether new or copied. The library should keep at least one original of each part, should the rest be lost/damaged.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-02 15:21
I would say to have original parts for the practices and the performances.
Give them copies for their own practice at home.
Call it fair use as that is exactly what it is. Originals which are taken home are a set up for disaster due to no shows at concerts, practices, and for damaged music.
Don't perform with copies, and don't practice with copies either as that isn't right, but home practice with copies of the parts is standard practice.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-02 15:23
btw - Flutists are usually a pain in the hind part anyway so expect and get used to it.
Be surprised if they aren't 
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-02-02 15:26
School kids--as little as they practice--routinely copy their parts in my area, and most band programs have copy machines. In band situations you have generally already bought the proper package, and photocopying would be hard to show as being larcenous.
However, I would throw away an non-originals that are turned back in to you for filing.
The big concern is with situations like choirs where everyone has the same part, and someone might try to purchase fewer parts than they need. Band arrangements generally don't offer you this possibility.
I personally would favor (as do many school directors) handing out ONLY copies and keeping the originals in the file. There is a disturbing tendency now to mark parts with highlighter in addition to--or instead of--pencil, and that makes my blood run cold. (I'm seeing adults do this to original parts)
Allen Cole
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-02 15:42
One of the issues that the copyright cops figure on is that pieces wear out over time and if they are used, than they should be replaced from regular wear and tear. If only copies are used than the originals don't get worn, but that may be defeating the publishers. So a question would be what is the expected lifespan of a band part vs. usage and do the publishers expect band parts to be replaced over time?
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-02 15:45
It is an interesting issue when considering the "life of a part."
David is correct about the no-show issue at concerts or rehearsal which is one of the other main problems but that is a whole other thread. I remember Charlie Minelli at Ohio University, so very long ago, putting the the fear of God in all of us with "When you are sick or missing that folder better be at the rehearsal or concert. If not, don't ever show up here again"
HRL
Post Edited (2005-02-02 15:52)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-02-02 15:45
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Call it fair use as that is exactly what it is.
It does not qualify under the US Fair use clause (which, BTW, is unusual - most other countries have NO Fair Use clause at all).
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-02 15:49
When I did my union audition 20 years ago, the head of the Phila. Union was there and also was a Clarinetist. After I got done playing he came over and started talking to me asking me what my setup was, who I studied with, etc, etc as he liked my playing. What was kinda rude was that he was asking me all of this while another Clarinetist was doing his audition! Toward the end of our talk, he says "hey, that was a great piece you played, could I go in the other room and copy it?" (I played the Giampeiri Carnival of Venice).
I was in disbelief that at the Musicians Union I was approached by the head of it and asked if he could (and did!) get a copy of my part.....
It was an early lesson in "do what I say, not what I do"
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-02-02 15:54
Hank - A school "copying" situation, IMHO, differs from a volunteer [comm band] situation re: copying for parts-sufficiency and for my own page-turning [emergency?] needs, but I can see the arguments there for/against being generated. At the moment, I need a copy of a [my?] part, so as to inform friends of its composer and publisher, its a Hard-to-find piece. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-02 16:19
Hi don,
I'm not a lawyer but IMHO I don't think the copyright law differentiates between a school situation and a volunteer situation. The best source that I have found has been:
http://www.menc.org/information/copyright/copyr.html
I am just trying to do the right things. It is also very clear from my experience at band practice that few people are even aware that there are restrictions on copying things (aka the Napster Mentality).
HRL
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-02 16:36
My brother-in-law was the Intellectual Property Attorney who defended Al Franken's publisher (Penguin Puthnam) in the lawsuit from Bill O'Reilly against Franken's "Fair and Balanced" book. I'll try to give him a call and ask him what he thinks about it.
My hunch would be that he will say "don't do anything which gives the group exposure to trouble."
One of the potential problems of a group which is using copied materials is that a disgruntled member could bring that problem to legal light.
It happens all the time in Divorces where an angry x-spouse gets the final revenge that way (not with music copying, but in general).
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-02 16:43
DB,
"don't do anything which gives the group exposure to trouble" seems like a very reasonable approach. However, I have been dealing with a couple of very emotional flute players :-). Others in the section, including a lawyer, get it!
HRL
PS What a surprise it would have been had I been greeted with "boy, you are really taking on a tough job: what can I do to make your job easier?"
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-02 16:55
What if you said to the angry flutists "look, what I can do is to loan out an original part to you. I need that part back. If you want to have a home part than that's your business how you attain it".
Nudge, nudge, wink, wink..........
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-02-02 17:07
One of the things this bboard (and site) is NOT is a place where people do a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" when it comes to intellectual property rights. While a discussion of copyright LAW and it's implications for the working musician may be appropriate, discussion about ignoring those laws on purpose is not.
I'm neither stupid or naive - I know what goes on - and if I see it I encourage those persons to think about what they would do if they were the ones on the flip side of the coin.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2005-02-02 17:22
The group I'm in has a folder with music for each player.
There is a huge emphasis on returning it in good condition at the end of the semester. If you mess it up you buy another one.
How do players practice at home if they don't have their own music?
The first semester I played in the group my cat managed to knock over a cup of coffee, and the music, in one misjudged pounce. I ended up turning in what looked like antique music. The director spotted me one since the music was still useable, but each term since then, the first thing I do is make copies and set the real stuff in a safe place.
The copies are useful for marking and page turning purposes as well as keeping the originals from the cat.
I pitch the copies at the end of the semester.
I hope I'm not breaking any laws.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-02 17:47
Hi John,
In the old days, we shared folders. Actually, I shared a folder with one other person last year with the Nebraska Wind Symphony and most recently with another clarinet player in my currect comminuty band. We never had any problems and were always able to work out an equitable schedule.
The Copyright Law link for MENC that I have above says "Based on this legislative compromise, the intent of the law seems to be that music educators can do several things, without having secured permission of the copyright owner:
1. Make a copy of a lost part in an emergency, if it is replaced with a purchased part in due course"
Seems pretty straight-forward.
HRL
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Author: Mandy's Mom
Date: 2005-02-02 17:48
My daughter's band teacher buys music for his students to perform.
Post Edited (2005-02-04 16:34)
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Author: zack best
Date: 2005-02-02 17:49
Is your concern legal, or ethical?
On the legal side, the chance of someone taking action would be zero.
You would be making copies of parts that you have already paid
for. There are too many others making copies of parts they haven't
paid for, so no one would want to make an example of you. It's not in
their interest.
On the ethical side, I guess that's more of a personal matter. I think
90% of the population regularly makes "illegal" copies of copyrighted
material for personal use and sees nothing wrong with that. I
personally hold with the 90% and think society as a whole would overall
benefit from much liberalized "fair use" laws. However people
with a financial interest tend to have disproportional influence
on setting laws such as this. Anyway there is little incentive to
change laws that are widly ignored and seldom enforced.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-02 17:54
Zack,
My interest is both legal and ethical. I don't copy computer software or burn CDs to avoid buying them. I guess I am part of that 10% of the population that is pretty boring.
HRL
PS I agree that a community band in OH will not probably be made an example of but.....
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-02 17:56
Hank,
Copy this thread and hand it out to your frustrated flutists ...GBK ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-02 18:00
GBK,
Good idea. My name/reputation can be no worse so...
HRL
Post Edited (2005-02-02 18:05)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-02-02 18:31
Mandy's Mom wrote:
> I am both a lawyer, and a law abiding person. But I cannot
> imagine or support a system that makes criminals out of a well
> intentioned band instructor and a bunch of middle school kids.
How about supporting the publishers that have a reasonable and liberal law allowing copies for shool children?
Better to light a candle ...
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Author: Ed
Date: 2005-02-02 19:02
Unfortunately,
“we have done it this way for 20 years” does not make it right. If you feel that you want to follow the laws as they are currently written, it is perfectly legitimate for you to do so. Don't be pressured. If they want extra parts, the group can always order them. Unfortunately, copying music, software, CDs etc has become so commonplace that most people don't see anything wrong with it. I admire you for wanting to do the right thing. It is not easy.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2005-02-02 19:06
I know of numerous amateur and not so amateur groups that rely way too heavily on copied music. Unfortunately too there is alot of music out there that is no longer available so I can understand how some groups rely on recopying music they already own...however, there are alot of people who are playing off copied music without ever intending to own originals or even buy sheet music. So, its quite a big mess, I have also know of instances where industry people have sent legal people to schools to investigate copying.
David Dow
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-02 20:17
Remember this though:
Your group bought, and owns the parts for the band. It isn't like you bought a set of parts which have only 1 per instrument and you are copying the set to be able to fit your instrumentation.
Also, if they are the ones willing to "do the deed" for themselves, then it's their business, but you shouldn't have to be bullied into feeling like you need to accomodate them just because it was done in the past that way.
The bottom real bottom line of any law for copyright is of course to protect the creators and representatives of the material. It's their income which is at stake by copies being made for free and not bought.
But again, what they do themselves does not reflect on the ensemble.
Copyrights can be debated all day including the use of VCR's and Digital Recorders.
Post Edited (2005-02-02 20:23)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-02-02 20:35
I was under the impression that the person who buys a particular material can make as many copies as possible for their own personal use. For instance, if I buy a book of duets, I can make copies for someone else to read along with me, so long as the copies are retained in my possession.
I know certain computer programs can have a different price if it's intended to be put on MULTIPLE computers (for instance, a copy of Norton antivirus would have one cost for ONE computer, but if it's intended to protect all the computers in a school, they buy a license which allows them to use it on multiple computers.
I would think that with music, it'd be similar. Since a school budget was used to buy the music, the music can be copied, so long as the copies are retained in school and only used for school use.
I may be off though, but this is what I would think.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2005-02-02 21:30
I have looked into this before and I believe the way it worked was that it was alright to copy for educational purposes. Playing a concert qualified as education purposes as long as the copies were from the originals in the copier's posession. Does that make sense? I know that is how it works for a school and I would imagine it would work the same way for a volunteer organization.
Our band is playing the Lopatnikoff Concerto for Wind Orchestra and the parts are copyrighted but all hand written and very tattered. To preserve the longevity of the parts, we were given copies, simply because the piece is not published. (Don't forget, though, it IS STILL copyrighted).
So I would say that it is alright legally to copy parts for extra players. In a concert, I will assume that you will do at max two to a stand and if you have twelve, then you should have enough originals to go around (don't parts come with generally 6 flute, 1 piccolo?). But for rehearsals (and imho, concerts as well) and practicing, I would feel comfortable giving copies out as long as I (or you in your case) owned the originals as well.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-02 21:47
Clarinetist04,
You said "So I would say that it is alright legally to copy parts for extra players." What is the legal basis for saying this?
The MENC website information states "The following, however, are expressly prohibited:
1. Copying...[my deletion]
2. Copying music for any kind of performance (but note the emergency exception above)"
I did not see any education exemption that seems to apply to your arguments; but as I stated earlier, I am not a lawyer.
HRL
PS Also see the performance rights on the MENC site.
Post Edited (2005-02-02 23:04)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-02-02 22:18
clarinetist04 wrote:
> I have looked into this before and I believe the way it worked
> was that it was alright to copy for educational purposes.
> Playing a concert qualified as education purposes as long as
> the copies were from the originals in the copier's posession.
> Does that make sense?
No, it dosen't.
> I know that is how it works for a school
> and I would imagine it would work the same way for a volunteer
> organization.
Not quite as you think. Schools pay a set amount for performances, generally less than a public performance, but are restricted from selling any recording to the general public, thus the restrictions such as the recordings from Clarinetfest.
Also, preformance rights are not the same as the copyrightds on the music - it's a complicated system.
> Our band is playing the Lopatnikoff Concerto for Wind Orchestra
> and the parts are copyrighted but all hand written and very
> tattered. To preserve the longevity of the parts, we were
> given copies, simply because the piece is not published.
> (Don't forget, though, it IS STILL copyrighted).
If the composer or publisher gave you yhe compies - great.
> So I would say that it is alright legally to copy parts for
> extra players.
It's not..
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Author: SolidRockMan
Date: 2005-02-03 12:54
My church pays an annual licence fee to Christian Copyright Licensing International (www.ccli.com), which allows for a limited amount of photocopying of material for use in worship services. CCLI also offer licensing arrangements for schools - maybe there are other such options available for secular music?
On the copyright issue, something I'm not sure about....if I have a recording of a song and I write down the lyrics and work out the chords with a guitar, have I infringed copyright?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-03 13:05
Solidrockman - Chords are not and can not be copywritten. So you could devote an entire website to giving out the chord progressions to any song that you wish.
Lyrics are. However, if you are writting down the lyrics for yourself and not giving them to anyone, selling them, nor posting them on the internet, nor on a billboard, side of your car, bus, boat, nor airplane, then you are probably just fine.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-03 13:16
Hi Everyone,
Now that we seem to have had a go at the original question, perhaps it is time to see if anyone has knowledge of:
1. Who has responsibility for enforcement of such issues (maybe FTC) as we have discussed above,
2. Have there been recent cases of enforcement of the music copying laws, and
3. What have been the penalties, if any?
HRL
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-02-03 13:18
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Solidrockman - Chords are not and can not be copywritten. So
> you could devote an entire website to giving out the chord
> progressions to any song that you wish.
And you would probably be both sued and shut down. Chords per se are not copyrightable - but their expression on paper may be; chord progessions have been found by the courts to be copyrightable AND large dollar amounts awarded.
For legal advice see a lawyer; don't take anything said here as gospel. Much of the information available over the internet is "mis"-information. If ypu think you might be infringing on copyright you probably are - it's a very broad series of laws. Whether or not you end up being prosecuted is a different thing.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-03 13:33
Mark, can you site specific case law examples of that? (Chord Progressions)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-02-03 13:37
Hank Lehrer wrote:
> 1. Who has responsibility for enforcement of such issues (maybe
> FTC) as we have discussed above,
The copyright holder or his/her representative brings the case to court
> 2. Have there been recent cases of enforcement of the music
> copying laws, and
Many, however, most have to do with the more lucrative performance category rather than the sheet music category. Most if not all are settled out of court (at least my review of the case law seems to indicate that). However, to see what might happen: http://news.com.com/2100-1023-212236.html?legacy=cnet.
> 3. What have been the penalties, if any?
Most of the out-of-court settlements don't disclose penalties, if any.
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Author: Mandy's Mom
Date: 2005-02-03 14:11
I personally pay for all the music I and my family download. I don't allow my kids to use "free" websites.
Post Edited (2005-02-04 16:35)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-03 14:26
I know that Mark is a bass player so he would have a good handle on it. However I thought that the chord progressions weren't copyrightable.
One example if that was the case which would be sliding down the slippery slope is the Prelude of Chopin (don't recall the #, but it's the really slow one with nothing but chord progressions and an occasional passing tone to the next progression).
That would be an example of the chords being in fact the melody line also. (if chopin weren't public domain it would be an interesting study).
Typically if somebody is infringing on copyright and a company finds out about it, they will write the infringer a letter telling them to cease. It also depends on what level of monetary damages that are incurred by the copyright holder as well as if they are in a "witch hunt mode" such as the RIAA was and is with file sharing.
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Author: Mandy's Mom
Date: 2005-02-03 14:26
I am pretty sure that copyright infringement is enforced by the owners of the copyright.
Post Edited (2005-02-04 16:36)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-02-03 14:40
Mandy's Mom wrote:
> Say the music cost 10$. The composer is unlikely to be
> entitled to more than 10 percent of that amount. So 1 dollar
> times three musicians equals 3 dollars.
>
> I challenge you to find an attorney who will return your phone
> call for three dollars!!!
You're right - attornies only get involved when the theft is large or when an example needs to be made. Very few people are prosecuted for shoplifting for the same reason. Doesn't make the theft any less significant.
Real property (I'm using a loose, not legal term here) and intellectual property are both things of value. It's the "intangibleness" of intellectual property that causes all the problems, I think. Most of us would have no problem going to small claims court if someone stole some sheet music from our store, but would wonder why a composer was going to small claims court because someone copied, re-arranged, or performed their music without permission and made a few bucks off of the result.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-02-03 14:48
Mandy's Mom wrote:
>> I don't know anything about the damage provisions of the
> copyright laws but in general plaintiff's are only entitled to
> a judgment equal to the "damage" that was done to them.
If you win:
In the US (other countries' remedies may be and probably are diffferent):
For any copyrighted work (which is just about anything you write)
1) You are granted an injunction, which is a court order forbidding the infringers from distributing any more copies of the infringing work.
2) Actual damages (which is complicated to compute - the profits are made from different contributions, the composer being but one)
In addition, if your copyright has been registered:
3) Attorney's fees (this is bigtime good!)
4) Statutory damages (generally $250 to $10,000, up to $50,000 for intentional infringement)
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Author: Mandy's Mom
Date: 2005-02-03 14:56
Mark, I respectfully disagree.
Post Edited (2005-02-04 16:36)
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Author: johnsonfromwisconsin
Date: 2005-02-03 15:59
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel when I purchase music that I should also obtain the right to some reasonable amount of use of what I purchased. And I think making a few copies so my friends don't have to crane their necks to read the page is reasonable usage.
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You possibly could make copies in this case and call it "an emergency", but by the spirit and letter of what the law seems to be, you would be obligated to purchase additional parts or licenses to cover all the copies you maintain.
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It is to the benfit of composers, and of society in general for music to be played and heard. Composers who get PLAYED will in the long run get PAID by sales of their music to people who heard it performed.
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Copyright law, though it's *supposed* to benifit society, doesn't seem to be at all about what a consumer thinks is best for a composer, it's about the freedom of a copyright holder to distribute their property as they see fit, within the law.
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An interesting non-musical example is the way IBM recently made the source code for a number of their software products available to the public for free.
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IBM did/does this because it fits their particular business model. They make a lot of money out of sales of hardware and support to their corresponding software, so it's not like they gave away the perverbial kitchen sink or anything that could severely undermine their profit. Composers and publishers are in a completely different business entirely.
-Not a lawyer, not a legal expert
-JfW
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-02-03 16:03
Mandy's Mom wrote:
> Mark, I respectfully disagree.
>
> I feel when I purchase music that I should also obtain the
> right to some reasonable amount of use of what I purchased.
> And I think making a few copies so my friends don't have to
> crane their necks to read the page is reasonable usage.
The law disagrees with you. I don't. You should know that the law commonly makes no sense at all.
> It is to the benfit of composers, and of society in general for
> music to be played and heard. Composers who get PLAYED will
> in the long run get PAID by sales of their music to people who
> heard it performed.
That's a different copyright law. Making copies without permission is theft, the same as shoplifting, even if you don't find it morally objectionable.
A composer has every right to give away their music for free. Few do. We have no say in the matter.
> I do not in any way liken this to shoplifting, since I did, in
> fact, purchase the music.
Sorry, the law again disagrees with you. Playing it in public breaks yet another law. Recording it yet another.
I've had these discussions many, many times, and I've yet to find a consumer of music like the way the law is written.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-03 16:08
Ok, here's an example of "what to do?"
I have a student doing a competition which they want the music for the judges. She will play with her own music. So for the judges, possibly they may mark on the music (I'm not sure) so is this student forced to buy another set of music?
That stinks! (cause you can't use a copy to play for the judges when they are holding the original, and if they mark on the music I certainly don't want them using it!).
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Author: zack best
Date: 2005-02-03 16:12
Mark C. Wrote:
> Very few people are prosecuted for shoplifting for the same reason.
> Doesn't make the theft any less significant.
>
> Real property (I'm using a loose, not legal term here) and
> intellectual property are both things of value.
Copying is not theft. I would hope that even those who regard
copying as a despicable act would concede that it's a different
despicable act than theft. In the case of theft, there is actual
loss of property. In the case of copying, new property is created
without the loss of existing property. This can negatively affect
market value of the existing property, but again, negative
market affects are not theft.
Admittedly my position may be a bit extreme, but I regard
patents and copyrights much the same as oil exploration
tax credits. These are things that society, through its government,
grants in order to incent activity thought to be beneficial. But
they are not anything to which the recipient has any moral right
or entitlement. In the case of copyrights, what is conferred is
the right to sue, which holders generally exercise in whatever
manner they preceive will maximize profits.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-03 16:15
David....The NYSSMA (New York) solo competition has the same rule about students providing original copies of the music for the judges.
Photocopies are strictly forbidden and will disqualify the student. Most students simply give the judges the piano accompaniment part to read from, while they play the solo part. Pieces which are unaccompanied, do require the student to purchase and provide an original solo part for the judge, as well.
I have seen very few, if any of the judges make markings on the music. Their comments should be (and usually are) found on the evaluation sheets.
If a student is concerned about a judge marking the original music, a polite reminder before playing would certainly be appropriate...GBK (a NYSSMA woodwind judge)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-02-03 16:19
zack best wrote:
> Mark C. Wrote:
> > Very few people are prosecuted for shoplifting for the same
> reason.
> > Doesn't make the theft any less significant.
> >
> > Real property (I'm using a loose, not legal term here) and
> > intellectual property are both things of value.
>
>
> Copying is not theft.
It is in intellectual property cases if not allowed by law. Plain and simple, whether or not you agree. It's the basis for copyrights, patents, trademarks, and business secrets.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-02-03 16:23
Boys and girls, this copyright thing gets tedious.
From now on, if you are not a lawyer with a special knowledge of IP law, please don't post (and I am including myself - IANAL, though IP law is a hobby of mine) concerning the legal aspects of copyright law. Instead, read the references shown in this thread, and decide to do whatever you will do. At least what you decide won't be out of ignorance, but will be well-reasoned if/when you need to explain yourself.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-03 16:24
It's the Mozart Concerto.
So she will be playing with piano too and using the part. My own part would be what the judges would be looking at so maybe a mention would be the thing to do. That or just not worry about it.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-03 16:38
David...Just to follow up:
If a student performs with a piano accompanist and only has one set of music (solo part and piano part), most, if not all, judges simply move over and watch the piano accompaniment part during performance.
Either that, or purchase the cheapest edition available (ex: Carl Fischer) to provide the judge a copy.
Then again, in the specific case of the Mozart Concerto - most experienced woodwind judges don't even need to see the music...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-03 17:32
This is a competition with 3 judges who sit away from the auditioning candidate. Of course any wind judge who doesn't have the Mozart completely memorized shouldn't be judging winds at all, but their rules stand.
I just didn't want anybody writting on my own part
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-02-03 18:31
Then again, in the specific case of the Mozart Concerto - most experienced woodwind judges don't even need to see the music...GBK
Might there be misunderstandings about articulations, etc., if the judge does not see how the student's music is marked, how they have decided and been taught to play it?
Piano duo music sometimes comes with two copies when you purchase it, one for each piano. As far as duet music goes, I actually think that if you are playing duets with a friend and both practicing at home, maybe using separate stands when you rehearse, etc., that both players should own the music.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-03 18:56
clarinetwife wrote:
> Might there be misunderstandings about articulations, etc., if
> the judge does not see how the student's music is marked, how
> they have decided and been taught to play it?
In New York (NYSSMA) solo competitions that is precisely the reason why no
particular performing edition of the Mozart Concerto is specified. No two students, or teachers for that matter, approach and perform the Mozart Concerto the same way.
The majority of solos have designated editions which the students must use. Other advanced works (Mozart, Saint-Saens, Stravinsky, Schumann, and Weber) do not require a specific version.
As long as the student's articulation, phrasing, and dynamics, are appropriate and consistant, no points should be deducted ...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-03 19:17
It's the 2nd mvt only for an 8th grade student. Articulation doesn't really enter the fray for that mvt. like the others.
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2005-02-03 21:55
In Virginia, if you enter the solo and ensemble festivals, you MUST provide a second set of original parts. One for you and one for your adjudicator. It's a waste of money, but usually you can find a copy from your teacher, friends, band directors, library, etc.
I think it's awesome that NYSSMA judges will look at the pianist's part! What a nice thing to do (especially for the student).
These festivals are a great experience for the students and it's a shame that you're forcing 5th and 6th graders to buy two copies of the same piece . Oh well!
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The Clarinet Pages
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