 The Fingering Forum
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Author: Ricktator
Date: 2004-06-13 21:48
Hello. I'm an experienced rock/blues/jazz tenor saxophonist from Detroit and I've recently decided to start working hard on my woodwind doubles.
My clarinet is coming along fairly well as I've had a little exerience on it in the past, but that flute is really getting the best of me.
My technique on the flute is pretty good since it's quite similiar to the saxophone but my embouchure is sorely lacking any mechanical expertise. I took my first flute lesson a week ago and I've been practicing my long tones in front of a mirror since then. While I'm seeing moderate improvements, it's still a frustrating little beast. I run out of air in about 5 seconds where I can play on a tenor for what seems like forever.
That's all for now. I'll write more as my adventure continues. I have just under three months to get mildly proficient on the woodwinds so I can audition for a cruise ship gig in the fall. While the music isn't going to be disgustingly difficult, I was advised to get friendly with the flute.
If anyone has questions about saxophone or saxophone improvisation, feel free to drop me a line as I'll be coming to you woodwind players for advice between now September!
-Ricktator, Detroit
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Author: D
Date: 2004-06-14 00:11
just...in the future, the point is a question, not a story and you will continue to be ignored because of this
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Author: Erica
Date: 2004-06-14 02:14
Ricktator,
I think what D is trying to say is: Do you need any help with the flute and learning to play it? Because if you say so, there are probably a bunch of people here who can help you (sorry, I don't know how to play flute, I'm a clarinet player).
Maybe post a new post (I don't know how many will take your response right now too seriously), and ask for some help with the flute. I know you may be trying to avoid asking for help from other people on this site, because you may feel this as an embarrassment. But seriously, all professionals need help one time or another, and you are obviously very new with the flute.
Just trying to help you (I may actually need some help from you concerning jazz and improvisation. I'm a jazz pianist... but I think you could still give me some pointers!)
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Author: Amanda
Date: 2004-06-14 03:57
I actually think he has a good point. As a flute player for many years, I didn't find adjusting to brass or other woodwind embouchures to be OVERLY difficult, but after having watched trombone and sax players try to make a sound out of the flute, I've noticed that they are very much more frustrated, and need to breathe after every third note.
Why is this?
I think it's because as a flute player, I am used to having no air or embouchure resistance. Brass players are used to having the mouth piece force the air through a small hole, and the opening of a reeded instrument has an even smaller opening. Brass and reeds need to learn to create their own resistance with their lips, and this is why they find it harder to switch.
Notice that a flutist's air does not all directly go into the flute, and therefore the player may need to breathe more to make up for the "wasted" air. An oboist, on the other hand, has so much pressure backing up the air that he or she will often need to exhale before inhaling again.
Just a thought.
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Author: amanda
Date: 2004-06-14 13:08
like the other Amanda said most of the air never touches the flute so flute can take as much air as a tuba to get a good sound. to fix this problem i always tell my new flautists to see how long you can hold your breath under water(if you don't have access to a pool a sink full of water works too) and as they can hold their breath longer they can also play longer on the flute because they can take in more air. try this and see what happens. hope this helps
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Author: TorusTubarius
Date: 2004-06-14 20:35
Umm... since when can people not get on here and tell stories? Especially when I think a request for advice was implied in his post.
I have to say, and I think most of the other old regulars would agree, you guys are getting a little too carried away trying to tell people what is and is not acceptable on the forum. It's one thing to tell people writing posts like "Wow there sure are a lot of losers on this board" that that sort of post isn't called for, but it's quite another to tell someone talking about music that he will be ignored unless he asks a question. I saw nothing wrong with Ricktator's post and read it all the way through.
Of course, since I know nothing about flute, I can't really help. Sorry. I can however wish you luck!
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Author: Carolyn
Date: 2004-06-14 22:44
Geez D, lighten up. Rick, I'm a tenor player, and I've been trying to improve my clarinet/flute playing skills as well. My jazz teacher told me about a jazz flute technique that involves humming the note as you blow...have you heard of this?
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Author: Amanda
Date: 2004-06-15 01:37
This can help strengthen your embouchure, because it forces you to keep your lips pretty taut in order to keep the "flute sound" going. It's actually more singing than humming, because your lips are still parted, but you get the idea. Try singing one single note while you play different notes: sing the first note of a major scale while you play all the way up and down the octave (one octave is easiest to start with.) Then try singing with your playing--more difficult than it sounds. You can also try to sing and play harmonies, which is fun, but also hard.
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Author: D
Date: 2004-06-15 04:46
ok, i know this isn't my website, if u guys are fine with Ricktator's post, then there is no problem
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Author: Wes
Date: 2004-06-16 04:23
It depends upon your goals, of course. To play acceptable flute for a band gig is one thing but to play the flute as a studio doubler or classical player is quite another.
In either case, a lot of practice will be needed. The first hurdle is to reduce the size of your lip opening so that you don't lose so much air and are efficient in producing a tone. Try practicing the "puh" attack without the tongue, starting with the lips closed and say "puh" with a very small lip opening. Don't expect to be much of a flute player without serious private lessons. In three months, you may be able to pretend but don't expect too much. You can use the Rubank method books to start with but need to play the long tones, scales, and chords your teacher recommends.
If you ever get serious about being a good flute player, it will take years of work. The two important books for this are "De La Sonorite" by Marcel Moise and the complete Taffenel and Gaubert method(expensive).
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Author: Ricktator
Date: 2004-07-05 20:49
Hello. Sorry it's been awhile since I've been here. I lost the link for the bulletinboard.
Better late than never, right?
Let's start from the top.
D, I believe my request for advice was pretty apparent or else I probably wouldn't have posted on an online forum. Perchance you'll want to apologize when you get out of junior high school and learn to comprehend a little better.
Erica, I'm absolutely not embarrased to ask for help. I've been at this long enough to know that the only way to really improve is A) play with players that are more experienced than you (including private teachers!) and B) ask a lot of questions. Even the most beginning player can have a piece of advice that might click in someone elses head.
Amanda, great post and great observations. I've noticed the same and I think you're right on as far as the resistance is concerned. On a bright note for me, I do play a very open tenor setup with very little resistance. I'm not used to too much!
amanda, the last time I held my breath under water I inhaled by accident and it wasn't pretty. But I'll try it in the shower next time. Hehehe.
Torus, thanks for posting some common sense.
Amanda, I've been humming/playing on my tenor for years. Lots of neat sounds and harmonies are possible. It's good for my ear, too.
Wes, first step for me was taking out in a church band I back up once in awhile last week. That was a huge boost of confidence as I didn't make a total fool of myself. In a couple of weeks it will be with a wedding group. Hold on tight world, I'm coming out!
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