 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Erez Katz
Date: 2025-10-13 06:21
steady air flow and very accurate fingering. if the 4 holes open and close exactly the same tine then there is very little break to speak of. if there is an audible artifact - one of the fingers is not in synch.
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2025-10-13 12:30
Use an alternative fingering for the D, like side keys.
So often in recordings you hear the player going over the 'hump' of that interval. Particularly annoying in the solo from Rachmaninoff 2nd Symphony. In that, the D isn't a long note, but sometimes you hear it only half the length as the player goes over that hump.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2025-10-15 04:29
I haven't played this in decades, but when I did I used the RH side trill for the D at the beginning of the excerpt. Later on where it wasn't just CDCDCDC (some Bs in there) I played D normal fingering.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book-- Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: brycon
Date: 2025-10-15 09:18
On most clarinets, the alternate high-D fingerings are out of tune at the volume level you need to play this solo in the orchestra.
With the regular fingerings, for some reason, holding down the right-hand Eb key throughout the opening measures, for both the D and the C, helps the evenness of tone color (and even the coordination). In general, I like to anchor the right-hand little finger on the Eb or C key when possible.
As an exercise, though, play the opening measure on repeat maybe four, five, or six times. Play it first with the side-key D, then with the regular D, and continuing alternating. Hearing the smoothness and evenness of the side-key fingering provides a reference with which to match the regular fingering.
I also find that focusing on the expression (a sfz on the opening C and a crescendo through the remainder of the bar, for example) helps match the opening tones. If you just blow and go, the D can sound very harsh.
But yeah, I've never played it, nor seen anyone play it, with an alternate high-D fingering. Fingerings should be picked for intonation and/or color, I think, not primarily for ease of playing (and the regular high-D fingering isn't even that tough, at any rate).
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2025-10-15 17:07
Regular fingering, lots of practice. I'll never be playing this in concert, but I've spent a lot of time practicing that break for smoothness. Precise finger timing is one thing, and good air column support, voicing both notes at once.
The two notes have different natural sound qualities and resistance, but I like any of the alternate D fingerings less - except when a trill is necessary, and this isn't a trill.
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Author: lmliberson
Date: 2025-10-15 18:26
Having performed this piece dozens of times, I can unequivocally state that brycon and Philip are exactly correct. One should never (IMO) use a so-called "alternate" high D fingering. Frankly, it sounds awful and sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb.
I've witnessed hearing these excerpts in literally hundreds of auditions - it's not difficult at all to pick out those looking for the easy way out.
Can you play it with these other (side keys, open D, etc.) fingerings? Sure. But why would you want to do so knowing how substandard they are?
To quote one of my teachers, you could play it the safe way or play it the right way.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2025-10-18 10:06
I've always used the side right key. However Marcellus expected you to use the correct figuring. When with Iggie Gennusa he used the side key. It's often a tad bit flat so have the side key adjusted oe the tone hole opened carefully be undercutting the hole. This I learned how to do from Hans Moennig.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2025-10-18 13:26
Hi Bob, good to see you back. It's been a while.
German system players, including Wenzel Fuchs at Berlin Phil, use a side key as well, though I've no idea how things work on their fingering system.
Personally, the side key tunes well on my instruments and I think the additional brightness of that note fits the character of the piece. It sounds smoother as well. Almost no matter how great the player using the standard fingering, you can hear them going over the C to D 'hump'. I doubt R-K had that in mind when he wrote that line.
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Author: donald
Date: 2025-10-18 15:13
On my Yamaha Customs (YCL82 and YCL85, 1980s horns that I don't believe were available in USA) the side key D was quite nice and in tune and even usable as a held note. When I switched to Buffet clarinets there were many advantages, but THIS was not one of them- this fingering was completely unsuitable for anything other than a trill.
Opening up the tone hole would have sharpened it... but then the "alternative throat Bb" would have been too sharp to use.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2025-10-18 22:29
I agree with JTJC. I would think no matter how great a player you are there would always be a lack of smoothness with the regular fingering D. My side key is pretty much in tune. I don't think you are lowering your "status" by not doing it the "right" way.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book-- Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-10-19 00:54
Bob Bernardo wrote:
> I've always used the side right key. However Marcellus expected
> you to use the correct figuring. When with Iggie Gennusa he
> used the side key. It's often a tad bit flat so have the side
> key adjusted oe the tone hole opened carefully be undercutting
> the hole. This I learned how to do from Hans Moennig.
>
Hi, Bob. I'm glad to see you back, too. I've read that Marcellus didn't like "alternate" keys in general - also recommended not using the two bottom rh side keys for chromatic F#/C#.
The rh side key sounds fine on my very old Moennig-rebuilt Buffet. It can be a little unstable on my 1972 10G. It depends very much on the specific instrument.
Karl
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2025-10-19 01:34
kdk wrote:
> Bob Bernardo wrote:
>
> > I've always used the side right key. However Marcellus
> expected
> > you to use the correct figuring. When with Iggie Gennusa he
> > used the side key. It's often a tad bit flat so have the side
> > key adjusted oe the tone hole opened carefully be
> undercutting
> > the hole. This I learned how to do from Hans Moennig.
> >
>
> Hi, Bob. I'm glad to see you back, too. I've read that
> Marcellus didn't like "alternate" keys in general - also
> recommended not using the two bottom rh side keys for chromatic
> F#/C#.
>
> The rh side key sounds fine on my very old Moennig-rebuilt
> Buffet. It can be a little unstable on my 1972 10G. It depends
> very much on the specific instrument.
>
> Karl
I use the 2 bottom rh side keys for alternate F# (1st space on staff) whenever I can fluidly. I find it has a fuller sound than the regular F#. As you say, depends on the instrument, though I've used it on all 3 of the R13s I've owned.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book-- Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: lmliberson
Date: 2025-10-19 18:43
Tom H said: “I would think no matter how great a player you are there would always be a lack of smoothness with the regular fingering D.”
Well, I suppose that depends on the player, doesn’t it? It’s hardly an impossibility. How one thinks and phrases these solos contribute to how smoothly this can come off successfully. Obviously, skill plays a part, right?
“My side key is pretty much in tune.”
It’s not just about pitch. It’s also having a lot to do about the notes matching up tonally, sonically. Either you can hear/sense the different or you can’t. IMO, it’s pretty easy to hear the tonal discrepancies when approaching the D with either the side keys or playing it open. Maybe some might not regard this as important since it goes by rather quickly. I don’t as many others don’t. Personal preference, I suppose (as it seems just about everything else about clarinet playing is…).
“I don't think you are lowering your "status" by not doing it the "right" way.”
Nobody, including me, said anything about one’s “status”. I merely quoted one of my teachers, who had a lengthy career in major symphonies. I took his words to heart. To me, the “standard” D tunes better and sounds better and that’s how I approached it and played it throughout my career. Was it easy? Hell, no! Was it worth it? Definitely yes!
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2025-10-20 05:45
lmliberson--I guess what it boils down to is whether it is possible to play the C-D regular fingering D exactly as smoothly as using the RH (or either) side key? I say it can't be done because you are opening and closing holes (not to mention holes in both hands). An easier slur would be using just the left hand playing say, C down to A or G, but still not as smooth as lifting up one RH side key. That may be splitting hairs if it's done by a top notch player.
I can see that the RH alt. D has a little different tone than the regular fingering notes in that range. IMO not enough to not use it, but that's just personal preference.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book-- Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2025-10-20 15:27
Hi Tom. Why would opening and closing holes with keys be any different in general than opening and closing holes with fingers?
One difference in this specific case is that the normal fingering involves crossing a register break, while the side key fingering does not. Ascending across a register break generally involves splitting the vibrating air column into more parts. If all the hole changes aren't precisely coordinated, the air column change will transition through some other state before arriving at the desired one. Sort of like turbulence.
On the other hand, key springs may not operate as quickly as fingers: you may release a key faster than it closes. This may not be enough to affect one's choice in the given example, but it can appear in some cases. Key timing can be a thing.
Another point: normal fingering D6 already sounds different than C6 because it's in a different register. Whichever fingering one chooses, blending enough to match the desired character of the passage is needed.
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Author: donald
Date: 2025-10-21 00:10
There's that saying "if you come for the king you better win" (or something like that) and that's sort of how it goes with alternative fingerings- Greg Smith pointed this out to me about 30 years ago when I bumbled the high D in Rach 2 solo (using an alternative fingering that had worked perfectly in the practise room).
If you feel you can make it work, then by all means go ahead, just don't complain when someone notices!
The Rimsky-Korsakov solo mentioned above turns out to be a bit "tricksier" than you imagine at first. For one thing, YOU don't get to decide the tempo, and if the conductor takes it a little slower than you did it spectacularly well in the practise room, then the high D becomes quite a bit more noticeable than you thought it would be.
First time I played this was as "Acting Principal" in a B grade pro symphony, but the visiting conductor was Carl St Clair and I recall being surprised that he took it slower than I had imagined.... can always happen no matter how good or bad the conductor is (I like the slower tempo btw).
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2025-10-21 12:08
Maybe it's well known but this clip has excellent advice on how to approach this piece. as well as badass playing. All the Larry Combs orchestral excerpts clips are very instructive. Definitely worth a watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95LVGzW95Cc
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2025-10-21 13:38
There's plenty of examples on YouTube of top players in top orchestras produce the C/D bump in this piece. Also many examples of the same in the Rachmaninoff 2nd solo. Maybe they need to take lessons from someone.
This seems to be an interval clarinetists take a bit for granted. It's always there and mostly it doesn't matter how smooth it sounds as it can't be heard in the texture. Then there's the odd occasion where it does matter and the above are two examples. I'm sure all the players noted above have made their judgement about how best to get across their idea of how it should sound, balancing intonation, pitch, tone, smoothness in the context of their orchestra, conductor and chosen tempo.
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The Clarinet Pages
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![[C6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/c6.gif)
and ![[D6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/d6.gif)
. ![[B5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/b5.gif)
to 