 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: m1964
Date: 2025-04-18 21:02
This post may irritate the “Buffet mafia” people as well as anti - “Buffet” crowd too.
Just bought a new pro-level Selmer which required extensive adjustments, from springs that are too stiff to keys that do not open properly.
So, when someone complaints about their new Buffet not playing right, know that it is happening not only with Buffet clarinets but with Selmers too.
Never had a Yamaha so cannot tell anything about them.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2025-04-18 22:58
Yamaha clarinets are still built how clarinets should be built, but their spring tensions are set too strong from the factory and they could do with using better silencing materials in certain locations for durability and reduced key noise.
I've already made my thoughts clear on the build quality of recent Selmer clarinets (and saxes for that matter), but that's only going to fall on deaf ears, just as anything negative said about Buffets is also ignored and they'll both plough on regardless of the problems they're both creating.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2025-04-19 20:07
Chris P wrote:
> Yamaha clarinets are still built how clarinets should be built,
> but their spring tensions are set too strong from the factory
> and they could do with using better silencing materials in
> certain locations for durability and reduced key noise...
Chris,
in you opinion, (silencing materials set aside) do new Yamaha clarinets need adjustments?
I understand that it is a matter of opinion- my new Selmer was playable and seals very well, right out of the box.
Springs on all ring keys were too stiff (to my taste), as well as on the lower three keys (F/C, E/B, F#/C#), but surprisingly too light on the G#/D# key...
The register key pad when opened, had about 5mm clearance...
I know that some players like stiff springs but it felt strange that the right F/C key had spring stiffer than the G#/D# key.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2025-04-19 23:57
I've never encountered any regulation problems with Yamaha clarinets as such, nor any venting problems as they have set ventings which apply across the board as Yamaha do their research and development and even published their venting charts on all their woodwinds which provide an excellent resource to base things on when it comes to overhauling or setting up clarinets (saxes, flutes, piccolos, etc.).
My main gripe with Yamaha clarinets is their spring tensions which are usually much stronger than they need to be - not just their clarinets, but also their saxes and lightening up the spring tensions makes a massive difference.
In my opinion, ring keys shouldn't have to be heavily sprung as you're not meant to feel them - you're not consciously having to hold ring keys down as you do with other keys as they should just close as you lower your finger onto them without any real thought, but should be set up to close the vent pad under normal finger pressure.
Likewise with open standing keys in terms of spring tension as you shouldn't have to use any real force to close an open standing key. Closed sprung keys should have enough spring tension to keep the pads closed against the toneholes, but not excessive force as that will cause more problems for both the pads and also your fingers. The speaker key flat spring should have the required tension to keep it closed against the speaker tube, but not excessive tension that will only crush the pad.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2025-04-20 17:40
Chris,
Thank you for replying to me.
Re: speaker (register) key- I was under impression that it has to have tension similar to that of the throat A key (which has combined tension of two springs), in order to be able to play throat G->Bb smoothly.
Also, is there a source of those Yamaha charts on key openings that I can check?
Thanks
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2025-04-20 17:57
You definitely want to balance both the speaker key spring to match the throat A and G# springs so both thumb and LH index finger can open both at the same time instead of one after the other if the spring tensions are imbalanced.
Nothing has to be heavily sprung, but sprung enough to hold the pads closed and also the throat A flat spring should run smoothly in the spring slot (I line the spring slot with teflon specifically for that purpose as metal on wood or metal on metal isn't the best bearing surface).
I've just posted Yamaha's venting charts in a new thread as they cover Eb, Bb/A, alto and bass, as well as their recommended spring tensions in grams:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=516415&t=516415
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2025-04-20 18:16)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2025-04-21 04:32
Chris P wrote:
> You definitely want to balance both the speaker key spring to
> match the throat A and G# springs so both thumb and LH index
> finger can open both at the same time instead of one after the
> other if the spring tensions are imbalanced.
Chris,
Thanks.
I don't want readers of this thread to get a wrong impression from my original post: I love my new Selmer- love the sound, response and tuning.
Also, the dealer where I bought the instrument did offer to make any adjustments I wanted.
Since I could do mechanical adjustments myself and was not feeling well, I refused his offer.
I am writing this now but should have said it in my original post.
Buyers who buy in person from a good reputable clarinet shop can be sure that their new clarinet will be in excellent shape.
Internet shopping is a different game.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2025-04-23 08:42
Two new Selmer Privilege bass clarinets I checked had the very annoying issue of a key binding when a rod screw is completely tightened. This is unacceptable on a half decent student clarinet, let alone a professional clarinet. One of them also had the neck mouthpiece socket suddenly detach (solder joint failing) while playing and I know of at least two others that had this happen. Very recent Selmer Muse clarinets (two of them) had quite a few problems to fix from new.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2025-04-24 00:32
clarnibass wrote:
> Two new Selmer Privilege bass clarinets I checked had the very
> annoying issue of a key binding when a rod screw is completely
> tightened. This is unacceptable on a half decent student
> clarinet, let alone a professional clarinet. One of them also
> had the neck mouthpiece socket suddenly detach (solder joint
> failing) while playing and I know of at least two others that
> had this happen. Very recent Selmer Muse clarinets (two of
> them) had quite a few problems to fix from new.
Solder joint failure should be reported to Selmer, either by the selling dealer or by the owner.
If they know about the problem I think they will address it.
Could you possibly elaborate on the problems you encountered with the Muse(s)?
Thanks
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2025-04-24 01:47
Dry solder joints aren't easy to spot until they fail and can happen to any solder joint on any part of an instrument. I had a Haynes flute come in where the headjoint socket had come adrift from the body as the soft solder didn't flow through the joint.
You get the same thing with hard solder joints on keywork, so it's a difficult thing to direct any blame on as the person doing the soldering may see the solder flow around the joint, but they can't always tell if it's flowed through and into the joint.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2025-04-24 19:39
Chris,
Thanks for clarification - I play clarinet only so never had the problem.
I do think/hope that if a manufacturer is aware of the problem, they will address it.
How they will do it is another topic.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2025-04-25 08:07
>> Dry solder joints aren't easy to spot until they fail and can happen to any solder joint on any part of an instrument. <<
Yes, but considering that I know of at least three failed Selmer Privilege neck socket solder joints, but not sure I can even remember a key on a Buffet or Selmer with this issue, considering how many more soprano clarinet there are (let alone brazed joints on keys) then it might mean something...
By the way Buffet bass clarinets out number Selmers here (a rough guesstimate) at least twenty to one... and I haven't seen a Buffet where this happened (which doesn't mean it never has but still...).
>> Could you possibly elaborate on the problems you encountered with the Muse(s)? <<
First, the keys had a slightly different design from the Privilege, and I wouldn't really call it a problem, but the shape and weight distribution of some of them meant the feel couldn't be as good IMO as on the Privilege (which I like a lot).
The springs overall were very variable, with more than a few being way too stiff.
Some pads didn't seal as well as they should and it had some adjustment problems too.
A few keys had too much friction in the hinge. Not to the point that they were binding significantly, but enough that with good spring tension (once the extremely stiff springs were adjusted) it was noticeable.
That's at the top of my head, there were a few other things that I can't remember right now.
Not specific to the Muse but Selmer is using even smaller plastic pins for the left hand levers and they thread on, which makes them particularly fragile.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2025-04-25 19:35
Thanks a lot for your reply.
clarnibass wrote:
...
> >> Could you possibly elaborate on the problems you encountered
> with the Muse(s)? <<
> First, the keys had a slightly different design from the
> Privilege, and I wouldn't really call it a problem, but the
> shape and weight distribution of some of them meant the feel
> couldn't be as good IMO as on the Privilege (which I like a
> lot).
Interesting- I was told that Selmer basically copied the key work from Privilege to Muse
> The springs overall were very variable, with more than a few
> being way too stiff.
My experience also- some springs were too stiff (to my taste)
> Some pads didn't seal as well as they should and it had some
> adjustment problems too.
> A few keys had too much friction in the hinge. Not to the point
> that they were binding significantly, but enough that with good
> spring tension (once the extremely stiff springs were adjusted)
> it was noticeable.
I did not feel any binding- checked the F/C and G#/D# keys on the lower joint and throat A and G# on the upper.
Both Bb and A sealed very well, even after I made some springs lighter. Cannot say anything about pins.
Again, I have to stress that the selling dealer offered to make any adjustments I wanted.
I was not feeling well and knew that I could do them myself so I refused the offer.
In addition, sometimes it takes me a few days of practicing to realize that a spring is too stiff or the pad is too close or too high.
Again,
Thank you for replying to me.
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