 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-04-11 18:24
It seems like there is a lot of cheap but quality plastic and hard rubber bass clarinets for sale now that all have double register mechanisms and low C. That being the case, would anyone still want to buy student model eb bass clarinets with single register mechanisms from Selmer, LeBlanc, buffet, Yamaha etc? I'm not a bass clarinet player (yet) but it seems to me that all the big companies need to step it up and start releasing modern student level instruments with double register mechanisms and low C key work.
Would you advise any of your students to buy a student level low eb bass instrument these days?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-04-11 18:42
It depends if they can reach the mouthpiece easily or not - at least anyone of any stature with any height chair can play a low Eb bass with little to no problem, but not everyone can comfortably manage a low C bass in some situations because of the extra length of the lower joint.
There are companies offering more affordable wooden low C basses such as Royal Global (based on Buffet Prestige basses), but the big name companies only offer pro level basses to low C and at a premium price which is mostly down to economics as they're not produced in high volumes compared to Bb/A clarinets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-04-12 08:16
Smaller=easier for kids
Simpler= easier to maintain (esp when owned/loaded by an institution)
Unfortunately they generally play fine in the lower register BUT results in the clarion are highly variable (I HAVE heard players with a single register vent sound perfectly fine in the upper register, but personally never had good results!).
This works ok for the old fashioned attitude where the Bass Clarinet is primarily a "lower register grunt machine", which may indeed be the case in a LOT of parts... but is no longer typical.
Most of the parts my students present to me in lessons require them to be fluent in at least the bottom two registers.
Not impossible on a single register vent instrument, but definitely more challenging without the double vents.
Post Edited (2023-04-12 12:44)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2023-04-12 17:40
Hey Hunter,
Great question and one that I have asked myself many times. But I am in a very fine adult concert band in Michigan that has a roster of three bass clarinet players; each person has a different instrument.
I am playing alto sax right now, but when playing bass clarinet my preferred axe is an exceptionally fine Selmer 65 to low Eb. One current player has a single register key student bass, and the third player has a new Asian Low C bass.
Let me know if I can help.
HRL
PS I have a new Asian Low C bass that I bring out when the three lowest notes are needed.
Post Edited (2023-04-12 22:21)
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2023-04-12 18:15
I'm not sure if obsolete is the right word.
For one thing the "big 3" clarinet manufacturers all offer student level bass clarinets with only one register vent. Many of these instruments are bought by school programs and see widespread use there.
In addition to this, for anyone looking for a budget instrument in the $500-$1000 range there really is no better option than something like a used Bundy. Even obscure double register vent instruments like Kohlerts are creeping up in price.
That being said I wish manufacturers would retire this design. They may be mechanically simpler but a lot of music, even high school level pieces, require the use of the full clarion register and this is an area where many bass clarinet students struggle already.
-JDbassplayer
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-04-13 01:07
i still have never played a double vent horn. i am sure i would prob have to have one after i did so lol. my leblanc 400,s are adequate for community band playing for now anyway.
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-04-13 16:14
Incidentally, I play a Buffet Bass from 1935 - double register mechanism is pretty much the same as a modern one (though I've had the lower vent re-sized), so the mechanism is hardly new technology...
My wife and I also own one of the few Bass clarinets made by Oskar Oehler (made by him, not just his key system). The interesting thing about this is that it has an exchange mechanism for - reg vent/throat Bb, and also a separate register key for the upper clarion.
Having the the two separate keys is often inconvenient and a bit clumsy swapping in the middle of phrases, but not impossible.
What it DOES allow you to do is try the same clarion register notes with the two different register vents and compare results. The results almost always are that it's really worth doing the swap!
Meanwhile, out of interest I'll mention that the bass is really quite small compared to a modern bass (it dates around 1900) but makes a very big sound that projects marvelously.
I've been meaning to use it to record something, but find the neck angle quite discouraging- it basically has an angle of about 90 degrees, which I hate. Historically many players would use a neck strap and have the bass leaning forward on the spike in order to get a better angle... (one reason a lot of older basses have a "looped" or "curled" thumb rest)
Another point worth mentioning, the standard pitch in Germany around the end of 1800s, early 20th century was actually close to 440, the higher pitch didn't gain prominence until the inter war period... A lot of these older instruments built for A=440 come with shorter barrels or an adapted "cut" neck that would allow them to play at the higher pitch mid century. Our bass has the original 440 neck, plus a "cut" one (that has been shortened to allow the instrument to be used at 443/445).
Btw
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-04-13 18:02
I realize the double mechanism is not new, but what has changed in my mind is the affordability of double register key, decent quality instruments at a price point low enough for beginning students or casual doubling players. I may consider buying a used instrument with a single register mechanism just because of the low price, but I would not ever consider a new instrument with a single mechanism anymore.
I guess a side question to this discussion is why didn't the big companies come up with student level instruments with double register mechanisms 50 years ago? Does it really add that much complexity or cost to add one more key to the design?
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2023-04-14 16:13
Asian manufacturers showed that the double register key could be included in affordable bass clarinets. Then, it was a matter of getting the general build quality acceptable. Now there are several decent makes.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-04-15 15:35
Philosophically or conceptually, the single register bass clarinets are obsolete in a way. In practical terms not really.
For example a school where kids are likely to get instruments out of adjustment all the time. Optimally it would be best to buy used instruments, or educate in a way so those problems don't happen. This is possible, proven by kids having no issues with pro low C bass clarinet in a few music programs here. Sometimes it's not realistic, and because of bureaucracy they have to buy new instruments, so something like the Yamaha plastic bass might still be the best option.
Sometimes it's just a matter of price. There is still a huge difference between a used Bundy and the most basic half decent Chinese low C bass. It's good that someone who can't afford the latter can still play.
There's also weight. Low Eb is significantly lighter, to the point of even some professional using it in preference to low C. This has nothing to do with the register mech and quite a lot of professionals use a low Eb pro model.
But as far as the approach to music as a whole, the plain simple bass clarinets are obsolete. They usually are part of the mind numbing approach of sticking some kids with bass and very basic parts, not really aiming for that much in music. I started with a Vito and upgraded to a pro Buffet a few months later. I like to think bass clarinet would have become my main instrument either way... but who knows, maybe not. It's always preferable to move towards the most inspiring and open minded direction and not mindlessly stay in a loop, but there are a lot of factors.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-04-16 19:49
I can't imagine anybody prefering a single register over a double one , but I CAN imagine people wanting a low Eb rather than a low C . Aside from being that bit shorter ,lighter and of course cheaper, a low Eb has a more straightforward mechanics / regulation . The low C is kind of exponentially more complex and potentially troublesome . In many ways I think that a low Eb over a low C is quite a sensible choice therefore .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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