 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Connor1700
Date: 2023-02-11 00:18
Hello!
I'm a new member here and have enjoyed reading a zillion posts, but I haven't seen a string with the information I'm looking for.
I'm in the market for a pro level bass clarinet. I've read many comments about the various brands but nothing about the characteristics of each in a concise commentary. I've found it almost impossible to find a music retailer which carries the brands I'm interested in so I haven't been able to try them all out.
I'm interested in Selmer, Buffet, Uebel, Yamaha pro level horns (low C). If anyone has opinions and have played these brands, I would really appreciate comparisons, contrasts on their quality and playing characteristics. My apologies if this has been covered and I just didn't find it in my search. Thanks!
Post Edited (2023-02-11 01:25)
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2023-02-11 00:50
I am also very interested in these facts, and on the market for a pro bass myself.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2023-02-11 07:17
Connor1700 wrote:
"...I'm in the market for a pro level bass clarinet. I've read many comments about the various brands but nothing about the characteristics of each in a concise commentary. I've found it almost impossible to find a music retailer which carries the brands I'm interested in so I haven't been able to try them all out.
I'm interested in Selmer, Buffet, Uebel, Yamaha pro level horns (low C)."
It probably would be impossible to find one dealer that carries all of the above brands, but http//:www.NYC-woodwinds.com carries Buffet, Uebel and Yamaha.
He is in Brooklyn, NYC, very knowledgeable about anything clarinet related.
Also in Brooklyn, you can find Michael Lowenstein who sells Selmer basses.
Post Edited (2023-02-11 07:21)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-02-11 18:02
Mechanism wise, Buffet Prestige (and Tosca basses) have the best designed and most well balanced mechanism compared to the keywork of Selmer and Yamaha basses - all Buffet Prestige basses since 1999 have the redesigned mechanism which makes use of better leverages and a rationalised design, although they (like others) will still need plenty of setting up from new as their choice of silencing materials isn't the best as well as many pads will need reseating. Prestige basses have three low D keys (LH and RH pinkys and RH thumb), whereas the Tosca has two with the RH thumb low D key reinstated as a duplicate low Eb key.
The same mechanism Buffet basses as well as several other aspects have been copied by Uebel on their Emperior bass and also by Royal Global on their basses, only the Royal Global ones have the fully articulated C#/G# mechanism (an extra linkage arm between the upper and lower joints) so you can do an easy lower register B-C# or upper register F#-G# trill which you'll only find fitted as standard on Selmer basses. While Buffet and Yamaha do have an articulated C#/G# key (in that it's in two parts, both with opposing springs), it's not linked to the RH main action, so it won't automatically close as soon as you put any RH main action fingers down. They also have the bell vent for the low C like Buffet basses.
The lower joint keywork on Selmer basses has many keys split into two or three parts (eg. the low D key), meaning they don't feel light under the fingers and the leverages are short which can be tough going on your RH pinky. Selmer basses have LH and RH low D keys. Selmer have adjustable main action fingerplates which can be a blessing or a curse - a blessing if it means you can set them to suit your hands and fingers, but a curse if you lose one and can't get a replacement easily enough (and replacements are expensive).
Yamaha basses seem to be largely based on an older Selmer design, although the lower joint keywork uses several keys that piggyback each other which can make the action feel heavy. They have two low D keys for the LH pinky and RH thumb. They don't have the articulated C#/G# mechanism. From what I gather, Yamaha have a new model bass in the pipeline.
All the basses mentioned have the fully automatic double speaker mechanism which switches over when going from D (or Eb) to E in the upper register with two speaker vents - the lower one on the body which doubles as the throat Bb vent and the upper vent on the crook. Buffet Tosca basses have an extra vent for throat Bb which is part of the automatic speaker mechanism.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2023-02-11 21:02
Just adding that Michael Lowenstein has 3 out of the 4 brands listed by the OP (no Yamaha):
https://www.earspasm.com/instruments
Getting back into playing after 20 years.
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Vandoren M15 Profile 88 (non-13) mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren blue-box #3.5 reeds
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Author: Connor1700
Date: 2023-02-11 22:06
WOW, Chris, thank you so much for spending the time writing your reply. That's been very informative. And thanks to the other respondents as well. David, I see where Michael Lowenstern sells a lot of basses. I think an email to him will be in order.
As far as the "playability" of pro basses, I have only played a Buffet 1193 and Uebel. I have been playing on an old (restored) LeBlanc 400 for a long time. I'm not a pro at all, but am financially able to upgrade to a low C bass. A band mate of mine allowed me to use his Buffet during a couple of rehearsals when he was absent. I found it to be very resistant and a challenge with intervals especially going into the upper register. (For some reason I'm not all fuzzy/feelgood for Buffets in general... I don't know why). Another bandmate let me pop my mouthpiece on his Uebel and wow, what a difference. Still quite resistant but seemed a lot more "solid" than the Buffet. His upper Eb was very stuffy and hard to make speak, but wasn't that big of an issue.
I've listened to a lot of Michael Lowenstern videos and know he plays a Selmer and talk about how "free blowing" it is. That, I think, is what I'm looking for. I don't want to have to "work" or fight a horn to play it. In reading the posts in this site, it seems Yamahas are "meh". Probably good quality, but it doesn't seem anyone is wowed by them.
At this point, I'm leaning toward a Selmer or a Uebel. Again, any input would be greatly appreciated.
My question to Chris, who seems to know a LOT about these horns: If you were to buy a pro level bass today, what would you buy? That question goes to anyone out there who would like to participate.
I know when it comes down to brass tacks, I really need to play them all (side by side if possible... maybe a trip to NY is in my future) and see what works for me.
Again, I really appreciate the time and input from you all. You've been very kind. Thanks!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-02-12 00:33
I never really wanted a Buffet bass as I like Selmer clarinets, although I've never been happy with the keywork on Selmer basses even though I like the weightier tone of them. I only decided to go for the Buffet over a Selmer as back in 1999 I borrowed a Prestige bass and the keywork on that new model sold it for me as it was much simpler and better balanced than the Selmer bass of the same time.
I had the chance to directly compare my Buffet bass right next to a Selmer and found I'm much more settled with the Buffet. Maybe I've just got more accustomed to it, plus I use Pomarico 3 crystal and a Vandoren A1 crystal mouthpieces which really make a nice full sound compared to the much smaller sounding Vandoren B46 and Selmer C** mouthpieces I have.
Selmer have made various changes to their basses over time (not always for the best) and it's a case of having to know what you're going to get before you get it. I don't know the various model numbers of their basses and tend to lump them in with the serial number prefix or model names of their soprano counterparts (eg. CT era, Q series, Series 9 era, C series, etc.) when they do have specific model numbers like 23, 25.
Their older low C basses from the '50s through to the early '80s don't have the low D, Db and C thumb keys linked up to the rest of the mechanism so you have to hold the low Eb key down in order to get those notes which isn't always practical and they don't have a LH low D touch.
Then in the '80s they linked the thumb keys up, but they changed the layout of the RH pinky keys, placing the low Eb key next to the RH F/C touch and where you'd normally expect the low Eb key to be (next to the RH E/B touch), that was now the low Db key. This layout was the same on their basset horns and basset clarinets and was based on Buffet basset horns from the late 1800s/early 1900s. By this time, they have a LH low D touch. I had a Selmer bass from this era (a D series) back in the late '80s and was never happy with it and sold it on in the early '90s.
In the '90s they released a new model which has a flat black plastic plate set into the back of the body for the right thumbrest, front low D key (RH pinky) and the adjustable fingerplates. The front/RH low D key touch on these basses is very short, so it will feel ridiculously heavy even with the spring tension backed right off as this key is split into three different sections.
The Privilege low C bass has much better keywork than the previous Selmer basses with better leverages on the RH pinky keys (especially the RH low D touch) and is almost on par with Buffet basses, plus it has the fully linked up articulated C#/G# mechanism. This is their current model, so you've got to compare it directly with the Uebel as well as the Buffet if all three are available at the same shop. Try to do a blind test if you can so you're not influenced by the name.
If I was to buy a brand new low C bass now, I'd gravitate towards the Buffet Prestige or maybe the Tosca - probably one of the convertible models with the option to leave it as a low D model for big band doubling as it makes for a shorter instrument (and add the low C barrel for pit band work), or an Uebel Emperior.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2023-02-12 23:47)
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Author: graham
Date: 2023-02-12 00:49
A recent Earspasm video covers a lot of this ground including comparisons involving Firebird and Uebel.
graham
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2023-02-12 02:19
If you go for a Buffet horn DEFINITELY get the Icon neckjoint as it REALLY solves lots of problems on the bass. The long B and C are much more in tune and the whole horn is BIGGER, so it SOUNDS like a Selmer but it fingers like a Buffet. The best of both worlds.
I added the Icon bell as well. It made the most difference on the low Eb to C as you might expect. These are now better in tune and louder than before. I just finished playing a piece where the lone bass clarinet was playing a bass line against the whole concert band and those low notes just sang.
I had a Selmer series 9 bass before I bought the Buffet Prestige and always felt the keywork was clunky. I do prefer Buffet horns in general though I do own a Selmer basset horn and contra-alto, the latter is REALY a gem.
Eefer guy
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Author: Connor1700
Date: 2023-02-12 09:19
Hey thanks, Effer guy, for your comments. Just to clarify, you felt the Selmer or the Buffet hand the clunky keywork? Thanks!
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Author: m1964
Date: 2023-02-12 22:20
Connor1700 wrote:
"...I have only played a Buffet 1193 and Uebel... A band mate of mine allowed me to use his Buffet during a couple of rehearsals when he was absent. I found it to be very resistant and a challenge with intervals especially going into the upper register...
Another bandmate let me pop my mouthpiece on his Uebel and wow, what a difference. Still quite resistant but seemed a lot more "solid" than the Buffet. His upper Eb was very stuffy and hard to make speak, but wasn't that big of an issue..."
The resistance on the Buffet could have been caused by poor pad sealing- impossible to know.
That's why it is important to try and compare (if possible) more than one instrument, esp. when spending $$$ (IMO).
If you are too far from NYC to drive there, the cost of a plane ticket may be less than the cost of shipping a bass to you.
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