 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: rbenachowski
Date: 2020-06-07 11:09
Hello to all,
I need to do an overhaul on a Selmer series 9 clarinet. Can anyone help me with pad cup sizes? I cannot find my my tools to measure them and I hate to guess. Second I am deciding on what pads to get for this clarinet. Anyones veiws on Valentino pads ?, Music Medic master series pad sets?, JL Smith Lucien Deluxe pads or anything else you can think of. ?. Just looking to keep it stock though I like that feel. I look forward to hearing back.
Thx
Roger Benachowski
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-06-08 22:48
They changed the pad cup sizes on them over the course of their production run (nearly 20 years), so find out the serial number prefix and I'll see what I can find.
I've used cork and leather pads on mine and have several Series 9 and 9* Bb and A clarinets (and a full Boehm Eb) ranging from S to A serial number prefixes. Only they have either 19 keys/7 rings or are full Boehms, so the C#/G# pad cup (which is on the lower joint) is significantly larger in diameter compared to a regular 17 key/6 ring model (where the C#/G# pad should be the same size as most of the other top joint pads).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2020-06-08 23:35
Chris, do you have your own records, or is there a reference you use? I decided to try and get a BIR job (again), so I’m fixing some horns up. I found pad sizing very difficult without actually having them on hand, especially for thickness. Buying a bunch adds up quickly. - Matthew
- Matthew Simington
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-06-09 21:08
3mm thick is best for Selmers and most clarinets. At least with cork pads I can make them any thickness (and diameter) I want to suit any given clarinet.
What type of pads have you got in mind? If using skin pads or any other shouldered pads, then go by the outside diameter of the pad cups and depending on how thick the metal is, you may have to deduct 0.5mm if they're particularly thick.
Cork, leather and synthetic pads with parallel sides are much easier to measure as they'll be the same or slightly less than the inside diameter of the empty pad cups.
I haven't kept any records as I often have to resize existing cork pads to suit any given pad cup.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-06-10 00:04
The upper register is 9 1/2mm's and 3mm thick.
Lower register caries from 16 and 16 1/2. I think one is 15 1/2. I can't remember the other size, where the right fingers are and above that there is a pad. Maybe 11 1/2?
Call JL Smith to be sure.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-06-10 00:19
From memory, the leather pads I've used are 16mm for the large pad cups and 14mm for the Ab/Eb on earlier ones (later ones have a 16mm Ab/Eb pad). The cork pads being 11.5mm for the ring key vent and cross/sliver B/F# key (and articulated C#/G#).
Top joint cork pads are mainly 9.5mm, an 8.5mm for the LH1 ring key vent and a 7mm pad in the forked Eb/Bb vent soldered to the LH2 ring key rod if fitted.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2020-06-13 20:56
I remember now. Everyone suggested thick pads for student horns. When I tried them they wouldn’t fit - I couldn’t get the pad cups level. I’ve been using mostly 2.5 and 2.7, if memory serves (it’s been a while). IDK what I’m doing different, but there are several possibilities.
I may be using harder pads.
I may be using larger pads, so they don’t fit as far into the pad cup.
I may be sitting the same size pad “higher” in the cup (using more glue).
I may be setting the pad cup (the “key”) lower.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2020-06-13 21:27)
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2020-06-13 21:26
Attachment: A111C591-C395-49BE-BCAD-58EDA6E155EB.jpeg (1764k)
Here’s a pic of how they fit. I’m embarrassed about the glue - I’m getting better.
For the the OP, I’ve been using Prestini Premium Pressed, I like them, but they are probably a bit too hard for student horns. I’m afraid they’ll get bumped and start leaking. I haven’t tried their woven pads.
I know I’ve used some Music Medic pads, which must have been fine. The ones I ordered have a very pronounced step on them, which may or may not be good for you. I *think* I used them on my R13, because I needed really thin ones.
I used Valentino Greenbacks once and didn’t like them at all, but other people do. I’ll try them again.
Haven’t tried JL Smith but they make very nice stuff. Pisoni makes their Lucien pads. Pisoni is very highly spoken of. I tried ordering from Pisoni directly (they make every sort of pad imaginable), but had trouble with my card rejecting the foreign sale.
I personally thought that cork was much easier to fit on the little upper joint, but I sanded and beveled them on the BACK side (where necessary - for height, and to make them “swivel” better when gluing) before gluing them in. I did lightly round the corners on the front, especially the register key.
I think there’s a certain amount of personal preference involved.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2020-06-13 21:44)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2020-06-14 09:03
>> When I tried them they wouldn’t fit - I couldn’t get the pad cups level. <<
The pads in the photo seem to be stepped pads. Thickness is different for stepped and non-stepped pads. With stepped pads, the thickness of the outer part is most relevant, as long as the inner step isn't too thick, that's the part that controls the real thickness and the angle to the tone hole. Change just the back, thinner or thicker, as long as it's not too thick, it would make no difference. A 2.9mm thick stepped pad can be essentially thicker than a 3.1mm non-stepped pad, if the back doesn't reach the back of the key cup on the former
>> I used Valentino Greenbacks once and didn’t like them at all, but other people do. I’ll try them again. <<
Try Valentino Masters too. A little similar to Greenback (in material) but different shape). When using Valentino I almost always use Masters.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2020-06-15 02:49
Nitali, You’re absolutely correct. *Doh!*
I compared my pads. The brand I ordered first (and didn’t like) had the thickest felt. That got me confused. I assumed the problem was that 3.0 pads were too thick. I couldn’t figure out how anyone made them work. Mine just happened to have very thick felts.
I posted here somewhere long ago saying that the nominal thickness didn't matter, because what you really needed to know was the felt thickness. It must have been confusing because everyone was thinking “the felts are all the same regardless of thickness”. I asked a question about thickness, when I should have asked about manufacturer.
I think the overall thickness must matter somewhat because the bladder can stretch differently across the gap, making the thicker pad fit a little tighter around the cup. I was making them fit fairly loose. I’ll try fooling with it though, and I should be able to use thicker pads with less glue, and probably less glue squeezing out.
I always see things a little differently than most people, and it drives everyone nuts, including myself.
Thanks,
- Matthew Simington
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2020-06-15 07:49
Manufacturers are a little annoying by only listing overall thickness and pretty much never listing felt and/or back thickness for stepped pads. It's how I learned my lesson many years ago... first time I decided to order thin pads for a specific clarinet... only to get pads with same thickness felt, just thinner backs. They were the same as what I already had, except even worse, needing more glue.
Before adding a small stock of thinner stepped pads I asked a supplier what thickness just the felt was... I had their regular pads and liked them. Their reply... "slightly thinner"... hmm.......
>> I assumed the problem was that 3.0 pads were too thick. I couldn’t figure out how anyone made them work. Mine just happened to have very thick felts. <<
It depends on the instrument. I just worked on a clarinet that needed significantly thicker pads than most. "Regular" stepped pads (which I didn't use) would have been a little too thin.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-06-16 00:23
3mm is kinda standard on Buffet's and older Selmer's. Not too sure about the new Selmer's. these also come in at 3.3 to as low as 1.9mm's. That's way too thin, I think standard pads are from around 2.8 to 3.3mm's.
I did get in a recent Selmer for repair. Looks like the upper registers are mostly 9.5, I'll use cork pads for the upper register and the lower register has 2 pads at 12 1/2mm's, 1 pad is 15mm's and the other 3 keys are at 16mm's.
The Yamaha CSVR horns are also the exact same as with most Buffet R13's. I played on these R13's and the Yamaha's, repaired both models a fair amount.
JL Smith sells the Black pads which are available at 2.9mm's thick. I think these are still Greenback pads but black in color. .10mm's is close enough to the 3.0mm's. I'm not sure if these black pads are the same as what you find on some of the Backun pads and his horns? I haven't repaired any Buckuns. The cost in the US starts around $1.21 for these black pads. The more expensive pads Master pads start at $2 per pad. Greenbacks are also at $1.21.
I know some people don't seem to like the Valentino Greenback's. If it's the feel of the pad, meaning too soft or too hard, they don't seal very well, or they don't last, maybe the sound quality? I actually like them so far, been using these for several years. If you heat the cup too much or too hot I have had a few pads come apart. But with the usual practicing at doing your own repairs just throw out the pad if it warps or breaks apart! Pads are surely inexpensive, so if you can't get the pad to seal within maybe 5 minutes of messing around, I'd personally throw it out and put on a new one. By the way I dislike bladder pads, although they've gotten much better my average is changing the pad 3 to 5 times before I find the right bladder pad which works.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2020-06-16 07:01)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-06-16 02:24
Buffet may use pads that are 3mm in height, but the felt disc or step is considerably thinner than others and using stepped pads with regular thickness felt will cause them not to seat at the fronts. The angle of the pad cups can be altered to bring the fronts down to allow thicker pads to be used, but that's not always possible. That's why I prefer cork and leather pads.
I have been using Pisoni Pro CLS pads which resemble stepped pads and have a hard plastic shell with the synthetic disc set into them. The smaller diameter ones from 12.5mm or less have a parallel-sided step which is on the thick side for Buffets, but I sand it down to bevel it like the larger diameter pads (15.5mm upwards) so they sit deeper into the pad cups and can be moved around easier when seating them. The inside edge of the pad cups can always be bevelled to give even more room for manoeuvre.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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