 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2017-11-18 03:48
I have been reading about these horns on this board for quite a while and it seems like they get a lot of positive reviews here and elsewhere. Long story short, I am planning on having my R13 overhauled and possibly silver plated (pending confirmation that my hand rash I just connected to a possible nickel allergy is in fact from that), but first, I am having the tech assess it to make sure it is a good enough R13 to justify putting over $1,000 into it by the time you factor in the plating. I have done well with it, but also haven't had the opportunity to try a lot of other professional level horns for comparison.
In the event that this horn I picked out at age 14 with limited knowledge isn't one of the good ones, my next thought is to get a used CSVR, of which there are a few online (ranging from $1,700-$2400, so not too bad). One thing I keep seeing here is how consistent they are from horn to horn. If I order it from a reputable or well-rated source, would I be OK to order it through the online site? I would never do that with an R13, but my question is am I safe(r) to do that with this horn?
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-11-18 04:27
~ If I order it from a reputable or well-rated source, would I be OK to order it through the online site? Absolutely, if reputable
~I would never do that with an R13, but my question is am I safe(r) to do that with this horn? I definitely think so. I've yet to see a dud from any CSVR. If you played three horns, you might prefer one horn's resistance more than the other two. But in general, they'll all be really close to begin with, intonation, etc. I have a sneaking feeling, once you play the horn, you'll go, "Oh, I see what everyone is talking about."
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-11-18 05:52
Hit me up with an email. I will or someone I trust really well will hand select a CSVR for you. I live close to the plant, but I can't just walk over there and knock on the door, even though they know me. I need an appointment and it may be 3 weeks to 8 weeks from now. A wonderful Holiday present or forgive me if you are of another belief.
The very best thing you can do is find the lowest price store and I will have the horn shipped to that store in YOUR name. Then you buy it through that store. It Will be the best CSVR you will ever play on.
I can also have a friend at Yamaha in NYC, I cannot give out his name here personally pick out a horn for you as well.
But let me say this. I tried out 3 Bb clarinets and 2 A clarinets. I could have walked out of the plant with any of them and been very happy. But my final decision was based on that ring/ping to the sound. They all had it. It was just a tad bit better on one of them. Every horn played and you could play a concert that night.
The sound studio at the plant is better than playing at Severance Hall, probably my favorite hall I've ever played in. (Cleveland) There is that hall which no one ever talks about at Interlochen Arts Academy. That is also a tie. But the sound studio at Yamaha is better. Yep it's that good. Maybe the best in the world. I've been around too. I've played at huge halls like Orchestra Hall in Chicago to smaller places like with the assorted Burbank studios. NBC, CBS, all of them. Yamaha went to get lengths to build this. It is perfect.
When you hear that sound at the Yamaha plant and you compare it to the Buffets, you really get a treat. You hear things which you've never heard before. The CSG111 was such a fine horn too. The ring was very special. But after 2 hours I signed the Artist Contract and took home the CSVR's.
You do not have to ever worry about the talk about finding matching sets. The Bb and A clarinets sound so great and the A clarinets are the best I've ever played on. It has the resistance of a Bb or close to it.
I think if you were desperate and a store had only 1 Bb CSVR the chances of this horn being great are very good.
But you must remember, you are not buying a Buffet. The sound will be a shade different. Same if you are buying the amazing Selmer Signature. Totally different sounds. Same with the Backun. But I can promise you this. If you ever auditioned for a major orchestra you would have just as good of a chance as someone playing on the most expensive Buffet, Selmer, or Backun horns.
If you had an early to mid 1960's Buffet I might discourage you from buying this. If that 1960's had limited playing time on it. You won't be sorry if you wish to look into the CSVR's. They actually have patents on some of the designs, such as the silver which concerned you. My horns just turned a year old and there are some tarnish marks, so get a silver cloth and with one swipe the horn looks new.
Email me for a name if interested. savagesax@aol.com
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2017-11-18 07:26
Bob, thank you for your generous offer. If I were in the market for a new one I would definitely consider. Unfortunately I am not really in a position to pay for a new one right now, but neither do I want to get a lesser instrument than I already own. I had already decided I would spend 600-800 for a really good overhaul on mine. Adding the plating would put it at 1,000 or more, though, and at that point, it is worth at least exploring other options and look at some horns I was interested in anyway to see what deals might be had.
I have seen a used CSVR for $1,700 and that is not terribly far away from what I was originally going to spend. The only other instrument I would consider in that price range is the Backun Protege but I think of that as more of an intermediate horn. I'd really want to look at the Q or F if I was going to go for that and that isn't happening right now.
I should say I have never tried either of these to see what they are like. I'm hoping to get to a music store next week that has both so I can at least have an idea of what they play like before I decide for sure.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-11-18 09:09
The Yamaha is NOT a lesser instrument, even a few years old! People need to play THE BEAST! In used condition they cost about $1000 if you look and wait for the right moment then jump on it. If you buy used tell them you don't want a case. So take of $60. Just work it and you will find a great used horn, probably better than your Buffet. There is also the SEV. You may really like this too. Hit youtube and hear some of the recordings with these 2 horns. I really think you can find one for $1500 and less in mint condition.
Sorry I couldn't help, but remember me if I can help in the future or if anyone else needs a favor. Yamaha horns are hard to find in stores, so I'm available to assist.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2017-11-18 09:30)
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2017-11-18 09:23
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I would want the Yamaha because I think it IS comparable to what I have, but at a more reasonable price than the higher end Buffets I would need to go to in order to get something closer to my older R13 (or go through a nightmare process of making sure a more modern R13 is as good). I just can't afford a brand new one right now. :(
I don't want to just find a used high intermediate horn, is what I meant. Nor do I (I think) want to consider the Protege for that reason. If I understand what I have read about them correctly, the Q and F are more like my vintage R13 or a higher Buffet model today. I have a pro level horn and want to stay with that level.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-11-18 09:39
I hear what you are saying. I am on your side. You are playing this smart.
It's frustrating too my friend. We know what we want or at least tryout. But the $ is always a problem. If interested, I can ask my friend in NYC, he works for Yamaha, and does other horns too, Buffet, makes barrels, really cool, to keep an eye out on a trade in from the pros that are Yamaha Artists and want to try a different model.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Ashle TK
Date: 2017-11-18 22:01
There are demo csvr's out there. I just purchased one online from an authorized Yamaha dealer and it qualifies for the step-up rebate since it still new. What convinced me that it was safe to buy online was that at a recent Yamaha event, they brought about 15 Csvrs and all were very consistent over the full range. When I received mine, it played beautifly right out of the box. The R-13's I tried in comparison during the event, did not compare. The csvr is a great instrument.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-11-19 21:03
It is kind of a shame that dealers/stores do not carry the Yamaha pro lines. They really are that good! More and more people on this clarinet board are jumping to the Yamaha horns. They are not toys anymore. They are, or getting close to being the number one best clarinet you can buy. The price sadly keeps climbing though. Almost $800 in one year, so the used clarinets are jumping up in cost too. I wonder if it is the cost of the wood?
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2017-11-19 21:07)
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Author: Ashle TK
Date: 2017-11-23 21:25
If there were any doubts about the consistency of the Yamaha csvr clarinets, I auditioned with a literally "right out of the box" Csvr that I had just received, and just found out that I earned 1st chair at my high school as a freshman. What a great instrument!
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2017-11-26 03:34
https://www.yamaha.com/paragon/dealerlocator/
David Dow
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2018-01-15 05:33
I’ve switched to Yamaha CSRVs and SEVRs after spending 2 years where I owned A Divine, a set of Toscas, a Tradition and a Festival. I was pretty much settled on the Divine when I was asked to try the Yamaha CSVR. I’ve sold all my Buffet clarinets except for the Divine, which is on sale at Hammer music.
The Yamahas are better built, better in tune and play easier than any other clarinets I’ve ever played. And they are some of the least expensive clarinets you can buy.
Tom Puwalski, Yamaha and D’Addario performing Artist former principal Clarinetist of the U.S.Army Field Band, author of “The Clarinetists Guide to Klezmer” and “klezmer Basic Training” Play along CD.
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