 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Drakey92
Date: 2014-11-17 20:34
Neither of my clarinets (LeBlanc Sonata and Buffet R13) are quite in tune with themselves between the octaves, most notably being slightly flat on the bottom F and E. Is this quite common and rectified by lipping them up, or is it not? I know that certain harmonics are naturally slightly out, but don't know whether this translates to clarinets!
Thanks!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-11-17 20:58
The majority of clarinets have a flat low E and F, so there's no need to worry. If the low E and F were in tune, their 12ths (B and C) would be sharp, so makers have to make compromises as to which is more important out of a flat low E and F with an in tune B and C, or an in tune E and F with a sharp B and C.
Clarinets have been fitted with extra vents and keywork to bring the low E and F up to pitch - either automatically (Buffet Elite and Selmer Recital) or manually (Buffet Tosca and Yamaha CSGIII). Low E-F correction keys have been fitted to Oehler systems for decades which is where the big name makers got the idea from.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-11-17 22:39
The Ridenour Lyrique clarinets and (I've heard) at least one model of Selmer clarinets are NOT flat at the bottom F and E. And, at on the Lyrique instruments, the 12ths are not sharp. These instruments don't resort to extra vents and keys to accomplish this.
How? It seems to be mostly a trade secret ... but there must be more?
I wonder if there is a downside to this type of acoustical design?
Tom
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-11-18 00:19
The secret is that IT IS NOT TRUE.
Marketing trumps reality once again.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2014-11-18 00:41
Well, modifications to the bore can change the intonation of the twelfths.
Now, I don't know what Ridenour's clarinets do.
But, the downside, in general, to having accurate intonation between registers is: because the resonance peaks of the first partial PLUS speaker key are then in alignment with the fundamental, the resonance peaks of the first partial WITHOUT speaker key AREN'T then in alignment with the fundamental.
Therefore the resonance of the low register is compromised. The harmonics are less strong, because they don't match the resonant peaks of the tube.
There's a necessary compromise, and different makers choose different compromises.
Tony
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-11-18 01:11
That explains why older clarinets seem to have that wonderful "feel" to them.
In regards to the lyrique the B on mine is dead-on while the low E is actually 5 cents sharp!
So yes, what Mr. Ridenour says is quite true.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-11-18 01:16
OK, don't understand the science, you've got me on that one ... my suggestion is to check out the Lyrique Libertas (and maybe RCP 576bc) tuning for yourself. The proof is in the pudding, if you like pudding.
And, it may be that some parameters have been compromised to facilitate better tuning ... perhaps the sonority of certain notes have been very slightly sacrificed to fix the normally notoriously flat low F.
I'd be interested in hearing from other Lyrique Libertas owners ...
Not trying to start a fight, just reporting my findings ...
Tom
Post Edited (2014-11-18 02:03)
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2014-11-18 02:49
I play a Lyrique clarinet, when I first got it I had to relax on the low E and F or I would be sharp. Once I got used to not having to lip up the lowest notes I was free to play open and relaxed in all registers. Very happy with my Ridenour clarinet.
AAAClarinet
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-11-18 16:41
A woodwind professor friend of mine (Bob) had a young student using one of Ridenour's student instruments and he commented something like this: "has a wonderful sound, tuning and response, but the low F is SHARP!"
That tuning comment mystified me until I realized that maybe Bob has been subconsciously conditioned to bite that note in tune.
I don't see anything terribly wrong with a manual vent to fix certain low pitches, especially if it assures more resonance (?) ... I wonder if this key has some other advantages or uses on other notes? If this vent can improve other notes, in some ways as well, that might be interesting ... maybe more resonance fingerings?
Of course, the idea is with fewer holes in the instrument, the better the sound.
Tom
Post Edited (2014-11-18 16:43)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-11-18 17:01
Would this lack of resonant peaks in the lower register be what I feel in clarinets such as the Leblanc Concerto or the New Selmer Privilege?
.................Paul Aviles
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