 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Musicgirl2223
Date: 2014-01-16 02:34
I play on a Buffet R-13 from 1982. It is a beautiful horn and in nearly perfect condition. The only thing wrong is that the nickel is chipping off the keys. We had it overhauled last year and it played better than it ever has. I am a senior in high school and I am going to play in college next year. I have been taking private lessons and recently my teacher decided part of my tone problem is my clarinet. It has a stuffy sound and has quite a bit more resistance than my teacher's R-13. I realize each clarinet is a little different and that her clarinet is probably made a bit better than mine, but I do need to fix the problem. It's hard to get good tone when I am meeting so much resistance. I don't want to get a new horn but what are some things horn wise that I could do? Would a new barrel help? I don't need a new mouthpiece. My teacher said it was a great one. (It's the Rico Reserve X0.) I play on size 3,5 Vandoren 56 Rue Lepics or V12s with a Vandoren Optimum ligature. I read a little about tweeking the horn so if anyone knows how well that works please let me know. I don't want to try it myself and the best repair shop is a little ways from where I live so I rather get opinions before I take it in. I never play the clarinet outside. Any input is greatly appreciated! Thanks!
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2014-01-15 21:54
Stuffiness can be due to leaks. They can occur at pads, cracks, tenon corks, thumb tubes, and register tubes. Suction tests aren't 100% reliable.
Or it could be to the clarinet itself.
I occasionally run into a Buffet with peeling keys. There must have been a batch of keys that weren't plated properly.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2014-01-16 04:11
I've played three Buffet R-13's. My personal one is also an 80's like yours. You hear a lot about really good R-13's and not so good ones, but I am convinced that all of them can be at least quite decent instruments. Small leaks and timing problems can make a potentially wonderful instrument unplayable. Not all techs are capable or willing to take the time to transform them. I've had my Buffet made into a very nice horn because I sought out the services of a really good tech. (name available on request). If you have a horn with no cracks and matching serial numbers, I would be fairly certain that your horn can be made into a very good one. Mouthpieces and barrels are also capable of changing things for the better. Before I got rid of any r-13, I would first send it to someone who knows what he or she is doing. In my opinion, it worth the money to investigate and experiment with repairs, barrels and mouthpieces. Of course, if you feel you must get rid of the horn, I'll be happy to trade you a couple of bills for it.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-01-16 04:38
I personally don't think that stuffiness is related to the manufacture of the horn itself. Intonation is the issue that is what you are left to work with in the dimensions (or rather workmanship) of the horn itself.
Steven Ocone mentions the leak test. Often repair people will run a feeler gauge around the pad but fail to perform a simple suction test.
Take one joint at a time (also do this with just a barrel itself, just to make sure!) placing the palm of your hand across the far end, fingers over the appropriate holes (and "long B key" engaged for the lower joint), and place your lips across the upper part much like you would to play a brass instrument. Now just suck the air out of the interior of that joint until you feel that tug at your lips and down on your palm. The air should "hold" like that for at least 3 seconds (and almost indefinitely on really well sealed instruments). If it does not create a suction in this test, you have a leak. The leak can occur in places as mentioned above (beside just at the pads) or even under a post that may have been accidentally tapped too far down (my guess is you HAVE a leak and it is in the top joint).
Further self diagnosis can be done (once you have determined the horn won't hold suction) by taking off ALL the keys and covering all the corresponding holes with plastic tape (this process requires patience but is the only sure fire way to find the problem). You then do a suction test on the completely taped horn (this will expose a non-pad leak). If the joint is fine, you proceed removing the first (top most taped hole) tape and replacing the associated key, continue in that order top to bottom. You WILL find the leak this way. Once diagnosed, tell your local repairman exactly which pad (ir pads) needs to be redone.
If however the leak is exposed with the completely taped horn, the tech may still have to help find where that is.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-01-16 06:05
Musicgirl2223 wrote:
> We had it overhauled last year
> and it played better than it ever has.
> recently my teacher decided part of
> my tone problem is my clarinet. It has a stuffy sound and has
> quite a bit more resistance than my teacher's R-13.
My first question is, did the clarinet play better right after the "overhaul" thanh it does now?
If so, something may have happened i the meantime - something's gotten bent, a pad (or two) has gotten torn - and needs to be repaired.
If it plays basically as well as it did after the "overhaul" and your teacher feels that it's stuffy, I'd ask her who her repair person is and have him or her look at the instrument and evaluate it. I bristle a little (as evidenced by the "") at the term "overhaul" without knowing what exactly was done and how competent the repair person was. Presumably, your teacher takes her clarinets to a repair tech she trusts. See what that person can do with it.
By the way, I'll trust your teacher to diagnose the source of the problem - she hears you first-hand. But you might, just as an experiment, try a quarter strength harder on the Rue le pic with the Rico X0. I have a good deal of experience with that mouthpiece - I played one for over a year, and for me the 3.5+ was more responsive that the 3.5 - might be part of your stuffiness problem (if the reed is closing up, it can feel like something's in the way of the sound).
Karl
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-01-16 06:25
I bought a Rico Reserve X0 about a year ago and found it to be more resistant than I was comfortable with, and with a somewhat stuffy tone compared with my normal mouthpiece. There was some discussion on here at that time about the Rico Reserve mouthpieces, and following a suggestion arising from that I thinned the tip rail on the X0 by 50%. The result was a less resistant mouthpiece without the stuffy tone. It's still not my favourite mouthpiece, but I use it as a spare.
Have you tried the instrument with another mouthpiece? I wouldn't necessarily assume that because your teacher says that your mouthpiece is OK that it is the right one for you. Mouthpiece choice is such a personal matter and trying others would be, for me, a stage in diagnosing your problem. Even if it only confirms what your teacher has said, that's one variable eliminated.
Tony F.
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Author: Musicgirl2223
Date: 2014-01-16 10:10
I moved up from a B45 that offered way too much resistance. I could hardly play on 3.5 strength reeds at all. I was looking for something that was relatively cheap with a more open bore that offered little resistance compared to what I was playing. I have a very old HS* that I love but it's had it. It was my mom's in high school so it's even older than the clarinet (which was hers as well). It has been played well past it's usefulness and despite how much I liked it, it wasn't what I was looking for. When I bought the X0, I also tried a Clarke and Fobes (I believe it was a CS* or something similar to that but I don't remember) and I picked the Rico over it. I play for our high school's Wind Ensemble and top Jazz Band, which I play tenor sax for. I tend to do all the clarinet playing when it's needed so I needed something that was versatile and gave a huge sound as well. Personally, I'm scared to try to adjust my mouthpiece because I don't want to ruin it. I will try the reeds next time though. That might help a bit. I guess my point is that I feel like I'm using too much effort to play things that need very little effort technically. My local music shop does not do very good repairs so I have to drive at least half an hour to the repair shop where it was overhauled before. They did a wonderful job there and the technician is supposed to be excellent. I think he did a wonderful job but they did tell me it should be looked at about every year. They did a complete overhaul with oiling, new pads, and new corks, as well as cleaning it. I had one key bent on Christmas (left hand C# key for the middle C#) but it was able to be bent back without moving anything else. I tried the suction test with the barrel, upper, and lower joints. The upper joint suctions but doesn't seem to want to hold the suction. I have my suspicions about a couple keys that never sound quite right and tend to leak spit when I play, but I'm not sure I want to put tape on it. The instrument definitely matches serial numbers. My mom bought it brand new and we have the warranty card. As far as I can tell it doesn't have any cracks, but I'm not quite sure what I am looking for so I couldn't be 100% positive. I have solo and ensemble on the 25th and college auditions coming up so maybe I will have it looked at somewhere in between and get it fixed when I can. Thanks for all the awesome advice! Please let me know if you have any more.
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Author: Musicgirl2223
Date: 2014-01-16 10:16
Also, are there any opinions on getting a different barrel? I will definitely talk to my teacher, but I'd rather know if it would be beneficial to invest in one to help solve my problem first. It's the original barrel.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2014-01-16 11:33
It seems that the clarinet should be checked by a competent repair person first. The original R13 barrel should be ok. Good luck!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-01-16 17:19
Hope I didn't confuse you with the original post. The tape is used once you have taken ALL THE KEYS OFF and is only used on the hole that were covered by pads..........the tape is NOT a repair, it is only diagnostic!
But yes, you have an upper joint leak. The condensation that you mention is normal under any circumstance and can just be "blown out" or eliminated by passing a small square of the blue paper "shop towels" that can be found in the hardware section of most stores.
Fix the leak, and fix the stuffiness!
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-01-16 17:22
Have you tried other clarinets with your mouthpiece/reed setup?
Have you tried using a softer reed?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2014-01-16 18:24
There are many questions here. And some inconsistencies.
The OP said, "I moved up from a B45 that offered way too much resistance. I could hardly play on 3.5 strength reeds at all."
Was that resistance, or just a too-hard 3.5 reed? Before you gave up on it did you try a softer reed or two? The B45 may be more open than you're used to. B45s are not resistant per se. They are all pretty much the same - produced on automated equipment. Sure, there are minor variations, but heavy resistance is not one of their features. Player fatigue from playing a too-open MP is, though. How long have you been playing clarinet? How well-developed is your embouchure? How many hours a day do you have a horn in your mouth?
You say you're a doubler. Have you tried a simple 5RV Lyre with a reasonably soft reed on it? If you're playing a lot are you perhaps having peri-oral fatigue, and need to use a less demanding set up? (even if you think you can handle more open MPs)
There's no magic in boutique mouthpieces. With the problems you describe, the best immediate refuge is a "factory" set up.
These are the first places I'd look for an answer before handing the horn over to a repair person or tearing it apart to look for leaks, or making irreversible alterations to the horn.
Bruno
NYC
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-01-16 15:18
You've got a loose , bad or leaky pad.
Bob Draznik
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-01-16 21:05
+1 as BobD and Steven say you have a leak somewhere.
it could be a pad as it not unusual for pad to start leaking as it gets older if it wasn't seated 100% square. It could be that spring got loose and turned or weakened. It could be the joint/mouthpiece cork. It could be crow foot or bridge cork.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2014-01-17 02:40
For a suction test on an upper joint I would want at least 15 seconds. Especially if it was just overhauled.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2014-01-18 12:48
I play clarinets only after I have serviced them.
Occasionally a few notes are slightly stuffy. I adjust the venting.
After that, I don't find any clarinets stuffy.
Therefore I consider all stuffiness to be associated with leaks, build-up of gunge or "birds nests" in tone holes, and inappropriate venting. By far the most common cause of stuffiness is when a so-called technician installs pads that are too thick. This reduces venting and encourages leaks.
So I agree, take your clarinet to your teacher's technician for comment.
Don't blame the manufacturer unless you know with certainty that the main causes are attended to.
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Author: garylai
Date: 2014-05-12 12:38
I am currently using B40 and was feeling very resistance sometime ago when using no. 3 reed (thought I have got a wrong MP). Took some research and found that B40 is designed to use soft reed and problem solved after changed to no.2 reed. The tone is rich and I can play soft high register and loud low register.
Check on the box that come with your Vanderon MP and it should have already printed the recommended reed strength and type. The strength of the reed is not related to how well you play but need to match the type of MP. I think it would be much cheaper and easier to try out different brand and strength of reeds first before you try to upgrade any parts of your clarinet.
Hope this helps..
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