 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2013-12-15 21:11
So I guess if you try out different mouthpieces, you might need to change the reed size to match the mouthpiece to get just the right resistance when you play?
What parts of the mouthpiece structure affect resistance and how are they measured? Is it the thickness of the material, or how much of an opening there is at the tip of the reed? Are these measured in millimeters?
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-12-15 23:42
It's those 2 things plus a lot of others that can't be easily measured.
Probably the actual shape of the lay curvature is highly significant as 2 mouthpieces with same tip opening a lay length can feel very different.
I believe that the Selmer HS** and Selmer D lays had identical openings and lengths but different curves and very different response.
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2013-12-15 23:50
What is the "lay" length? I don't know the terminology of the different parts/areas of mouthpieces. I guess there's something else called rails? I'm not sure what it is though.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-12-16 01:26
The shape of the facing (the curved rails) affects resistance the most. A more highly curved facing that is relatively flat near the 'breakpoint' where the rail meets the flat table, but sharply curved nearer the tip, will tend to play very stuffy and resistant, with a 'hard', brittle sound. Unfortunately many student mouthpieces leave the factory with these characteristics.
Conversely, a facing that curves more abruptly just as the curved rails depart from the flat table, but is otherwise flatter for the rest of its length all the way to the tip, will be much more free-blowing. If overdone, however, the mouthpiece will sound too neutral (lacking in color).
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-16 01:54
Ok, there is a LOT to it with no simple answer.
For starters though, the LAY is everything from the point where the reed and mouthpiece part company to the tip of the reed (and tip of the mouthpiece).
The rails (and there are three) are the two narrow sides of the mouthpiece opening (or window) as well as the narrow curvature at the top of the opening.
Now, you can say that the bigger the distance from the mouthpiece to the reed at the very tip, makes things more resistant by virtue of the reed having to vibrate over a bigger distance. HOWEVER, if the distance from the tip of the reed down to where the reed and mouthpiece meet is longer, this will DECREASE the resistance (and the converse is true). This affect can be demonstrated by strumming a ruler off the edge of table (as a model for what's happening). If you hang a longer section of ruler off the table the ruler will vibrate SLOWER (a less resistant set-up). If you shorten the length of ruler off the table and strum it, it will vibrate much faster (more resistant).
And now for another kicker. The baffle shape (area of the interior moving inside from the tip rail) ALSO affects resistance quite a bit. If that portion is flat or even convex in any way, the air bouncing off of it will bounce the reed more and give the whole system LESS resistance. If on the other hand the baffle is concave (curved inward) or scooped out in any way, this will INCREASE the resistance.
Also the rails we just defined can be made thicker which increase resistance or thinner which decrease the resistance.
There are also aspects of the total volume of the tone chamber (the total area between the baffle and the window) as well as dimensions of the bore that influence resistance and intonation as well.
You can see that varying all these different things (in opposition or concert) can really affect the feel of a mouthpiece and this is where the art of mouthpiece refinishing comes in.
So it is really impossible to ask for a number or even a set of numbers that will give you an exact idea of what a mouthpiece will do for you. Only trying it will answer that question. If however you have had a specific mouthpiece from a specific manufacturer (particularly Vandoren) you can be relatively safe in assuming that the exact same mouthpiece will be somewhat close to the last one just like it that you tried.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2013-12-18 00:20
So is the "lay" the same thing as the "facing"? And, is it possible for the effect on intonation to be uneven over the whole range of the instrument? In other words, can there be such thing as a mouthpiece that can cause flat throat tones, an in-tune lower clarion, and a sharp upper clarion?
And I guess the more space there is between the tip of the reed and the tip of the mouthpiece, the more resistance you get (and vice-versa)? I've noticed sometimes I can take a reed that is too soft and re-adjust it so that the tip of the reed extends slightly high beyond the top of the mouthpiece to get more resistance.
I am beginning to think that the reed size is no measure of a player's skill level. If you must match the reed strength to the resistance of the mouthpiece, then the reed size is no indication of someone's playing ability or embouchure strength. The reed size is instead just an arbitrary number, right or wrong?
Overall, I seem to think a big part of getting the best sound is finding that Goldie-Lox "just right" amount of resistance. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of what's right for me. It would be gross, but I've always wished I could grab a pro player's horn right after they've performed and play it just to see how much resistance the pro's play with.
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2013-12-18 01:09
Your last two paragraphs above are right on. And some pros play with a lot of resistance ( at least it would be to some ) and some play with very free blowing resistance.
AAAClarinet
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-18 12:08
As a beginner it is ok to ask a lot of questions. The fast answer to your question is that there usually is a nice median amongst players of a certain genre. That is, many classical music players will have a similar solution, but you will always find exceptions and some extremes in the mix.
A reed strength indicator (number) could not possibly be more arbitrary. It is ONLY and indication (and barely that!) how much firmer one reed of one particular company is compared to another reed of the same company. You match the reed to the mouthpiece PERIOD. It is very easy to get it WRONG and try to put a reed that is too stiff for that particular mouthpiece (or the other way around).
For now, just find something that is comfortable, allowing you to practice for a good long time without physical stress.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: William
Date: 2013-12-18 14:57
Charles Bay made a mouthpiece for me that I asked him to adjust because it did not articulate as easily as I wanted. What he did was to remove more material from the inside of the tip, making the tip a bit thinner and slightly lowering the upper part of the baffle. His simple adjustment was very effective and I use the mouthpiece still.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-12-18 21:47
I use the terms "lay" and "facing" interchangeably.
............Paul Aviles
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