 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2013-12-07 15:24
Hi all,
I have a student with an articulation issue -- I have ideas to help them solve it, but I was wondering what other teachers who have taught this or clarinetists who have experienced it would offer as advice:
Student tongues tip of tongue to tip of reed. The middle and back of tongue are consistently in the "right place" (focused, ringing sound -- no issues maintaining the sound in all registers at all dynamics).
Student has trouble tonguing even sixteenths at 110+ BPM. They can easily tongue sixteenths at 136+. As far as I can tell, and as far as they tell me -- they do not change the tonguing motion, tonguing position, or reed location.
When tonguing "slower" speeds (110-130) their tongue shoots forward to a faster tempo unless they REALLY concentrate -- and they reactively make things too heavy to compensate...throwing things off in the other direction.
Again -- I have thoughts as to what to do, and we're employing them. But I'm curious what others with first-hand knowledge have done in this case.
Thanks!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2013-12-07 16:20
They have a "blind spot" which is quite common.
I often find the cause to be an air speed issue.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-07 16:48
James -
Have the student hold the clarinet with her left hand, rest the bell on her left knee and lay her right hand across her belly just below the ribs. Then tongue low C at her best 110 speed. She'll almost certainly feel her abdomen contracting with each note. Have her play a long tone, never varying the air pressure, and move only the tip of her tongue.
As far as possible, only the tip of the tongue should move, and those movements should be as small as possible. Tell her to think of the tip of her tongue as moving up and down, not forward and back.
It's not like trying to stick her tongue tip between the mouthpiece tip and the reed. It's like stroking the reed using the syllable "the," with the area just back of the tip of the tongue flicking across the reed just back of the tip.
Have her play low C and make the tonguing motion but just miss the reed. Then have her move her tongue forward until her tongue and the reed barely touch. The air should always be moving.
The concept is a long tone with the tongue just barely touching the reed for just an instant.
Once she can tongue evenly on low C, have her do the same thing with her fingers moving, C-D-E-F-G-F-E-D-C.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2013-12-07 20:22
Hi Ken,
Thanks for the advice -- in my description of the student's technique I didn't mean to imply that they tongue between the reed and the mouthpiece.
Their basic articulation, slow or fast, is a minimal motion to and from the reed as you describe.
They can tongue slow, fast, very fast, and supra-fast...but not normal fast.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-12-08 06:32
Tobin wrote:
>
> Student has trouble tonguing even sixteenths at 110+ BPM. They
> can easily tongue sixteenths at 136+. As far as I can tell,
> and as far as they tell me -- they do not change the tonguing
> motion, tonguing position, or reed location.
>
James, regardless of what the student reports, he (or she) is almost certainly changing *something* as he tries to produce the medium-range staccato. For example, it's very possible that he is *not* tonguing "tip-to-tip" at faster speeds and is articulating successfully and comfortably (so you wouldn't really want to change whatever it is he's doing). But then is trying consciously to "tongue the right way" (tip of the tongue to the tip of the reed) at <130 and is finding that it isn't really a comfortable position and the effort is causing unwanted tension in the tongue that's interfering with control and ease. The part of the tongue that contacts the reed is very much dependent on the player's tongue length, and many of us have to contort enough to cause problems if we deliberately try to make the tip of our tongues touch the reed. So, in a nutshell, your student may be articulating successfully using the "wrong" part of his tongue and the notes just go by too fast for him to realize it. Then when he tries to tongue slower but not really slowly, he tries (changes things) to do them "correctly" and gets into trouble with his tongue tightening up.
> When tonguing "slower" speeds (110-130) their tongue shoots
> forward to a faster tempo unless they REALLY concentrate -- and
> they reactively make things too heavy to compensate...throwing
> things off in the other direction.
>
Whether it's "reactive" or not, his tongue becomes tense in a counterproductive way at 110-130. If the explanation I've suggested is at the bottom of this, he gradually returns to a more comfortable way of tonguing and speeds up. My suggestion may well be completely off the mark, but if it's right, the solution isn't anything that involves tip-to-tip tongue contact, but rather to figure out what he's doing at 136+ and trying to slow *that* down.
Karl
Post Edited (2013-12-08 13:23)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-12-09 00:11
I don't have the answer for you without working with the student but I had a student years ago the had trouble tonguing, what's new, and I worked with him at every lesson asking him where and how he placed his tongue. He always described it as it was supposed to be and I would emphize the correct position. After a full three semesters he came in and told me his tongue was actually hitting the roof of his mouth and he just couldn't realize it until then. Needless to say I almost killed him, not really but I wanted to :-). It is not an uncommon problem that a student thinks they are doing one thing with the placement and are actually doing something different but it usually only took me a few lessons to find that out and correct it. Try working with her tonguing without the clarinet. Saying ta ta going from slow to fast having her concentrate where or when the tongue begins changing position. It should be hitting around the lower part of the upper teeth without the MP in her mouth. It may vary depending on the size and thinkness of her tongue. It may also be a problem with the back of her tongue or raising it to high or even too low in the back, or the front, when changing tempos. There are so many possibilities she has to learn what she's changing because you can't see it. Good luck.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-09 01:03
Following up on Ed Palanker's experience, ask the student whether the tip of her tongue is turned down behind her lower teeth. If so, she's "anchor tonguing," which is an inherently slower method. The tongue tip should be pointing slightly up and, as Ed says, touching the tip of the reed on its bottom, not her gums above her upper teeth.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2013-12-09 15:47
Thank you for the many thoughts above.
At the outset I wrote a great deal about the fundamental skills that the student possesses. My goal was to eliminate a lot of conjecture. I understand that you all are attempting to provide advice without what would help you the most -- hearing the student.
Karl -- Yes. I agree that there must be a subtle difference in how they stroke the reed. But I'm not 100% convinced of it. I can conceive of a person whose musculature would have a "blind spot" at a given tempo.
Quote:
My suggestion may well be completely off the mark, but if it's right, the solution isn't anything that involves tip-to-tip tongue contact, but rather to figure out what he's doing at 136+ and trying to slow *that* down.
This is how I'm approaching it. Their "supra-fast" articulation is inherently correct because it works so easily. Learning to comfortably employ it, as opposed to fearing it, and then spreading it down through the gap is where I've directed them.
I was hoping that someone had first hand experience of a student whose fundamental skills were not in question, but who solved the problem described.
Gnothi Seauton
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