 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2011-06-21 00:40
Tomorrow I will be joining the community band (Wind Symphony) made up of over 60 members.
a little history:
I played clarinet from 4th to 1 1/2 yrs college without private lessons. I Played 1st part in H.S. and college.
stopped playing for 12 years
started again and joined the wind symphony in their 2nd season. Played 1st part for approximately 10 years. (note - there are no auditions. you play the part you want to.)
3 1/2 years ago I decided to take private lessons and also began playing with a clarinet ensemble.Not having time for both, I focused on what I enjoyed most (Clarinet Ensemble) and played with the wind symphony occasionally.
I have now decided to make the wind symphony my summer thing. Its been over a year since Ive been with the group.
The clarinet section is typically small with 2 and sometimes 3 1st players, 1 sometimes 2 2nd players and 1 3rd player.
I have been playing 2nd, 3rd and bass parts (on Bb) in ensemble and really miss playing 1st.
From what I hear, there will be 2 first players, 1 second and 1 third. The 3rd player has been asking me to play with her forever but I would really like to play 1st.
Like I said, there is no audition. you play what you want.
i'm afraid I will be looked down upon for choosing 1st part, since its been over a year since i played with this group and especially if there are already 2 1st players there and only one 3rd.
I have to admit, I have played all 3 parts and 1st is just more fun. Its only for 6 weeks and I want to have fun. However, I think the right thing to do would be to play 3rd part (or 2nd).
Should I play the part I really want or play what I think others will want me to?
What would you do?
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Author: davyd
Date: 2011-06-21 02:18
I would say to cover 2nd or 3rd, and be available to cover 1st if there's an absentee. Middle parts are still important. (I personally don't consider 1st parts to be "fun" -- too many high notes.)
Perhaps you could branch out and take up the eefer? Eb parts are similar to 1st parts; you would continue to play 2nd or 3rd if there's no Eb part in a particular piece.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-06-21 02:19
Don't play first, it's already overpopulated. With 5 players, the ideal is 1 first, 2 second, 2 third. The third part is the most frequently overlooked part in a wind band, and a band with a third section that's as solid as the first and second has a much nicer sound than one piled up with firsts.
Could you sit down with the section and propose a 1+2+2 setup, perhaps that rotates periodically?
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2011-06-21 03:39
I agree with Alex. Just got back from community band rehearsal. The clarinet section sounded great with two firsts, three seconds, and four thirds.
On first part, you don't need too many people because the high register carries. It's the lovely harmonies of the second and third parts that need to come through and support the first part.
If it's only for six weeks, I think you should be there in a support role for the section. There's no shame in playing second or third parts. Be the best player on second or third...to the point where you will be sorely missed when you leave!
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-06-21 03:48
Sometimes the second parts are harder to play because of the bridge. I would say to divide the music up. Let everyone has a chance to play the first part.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-06-21 07:10
Play third. As everyone has said, second and third parts are just as important as first, and three people try to play 1st in unison, well, that's a challenge of its own.
> Should I play the part I really want or play what I think others will want me to?
I don't think you're doing yourself or the orchestra a favour if you sit in an already overcrowded area. Besides, it shows tactfulness, musicality and modesty to sit in where one's needed most.
--
Ben
Post Edited (2011-06-21 11:22)
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Author: Luuk ★2017
Date: 2011-06-21 10:48
Hi Janlynn,
I play with the Philips Symphonic Band since 23 years now and have covered 3rd, 2nd (occasionally 1st) and now 3rd part again. At the moment, we have 16 clarinets: 2 solo, 3 first, 5 second and 6 third. (Plus one Eb, and two bass.). When there's no solo part we have 5 playing 1st.
I fully agree with things said earlier in this thread: build the group from the bottom up, and 'fun' can be found in all parts. (Btw.: what is 'fun' for you? Being heard? Getting technically challenging parts? Playing solo's? Contributing to the success of the group?)
One thing I have experienced is that the 'fun' greatly depends on the arrangement/composition. Sometimes third and/or second parts are typical french horn playing: separated chord notes after the beat forever, sometimes you have lots of rests. But in other music a passage is extremely difficult because of the break while first part 'plays itself', or third clarinets have 16 measures on their own before the rest joins in.
There is lots of music published which is great for all. Maybe it's an idea to try to get more interesting music on the stands by getting the right arrangements/compositions chosen.
Regards,
Luuk
Philips Symphonic Band
The Netherlands
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2011-06-21 12:20
Thanks everyone.
with so many advising to play 3rd part I think thats what I'm going to do for wind symphony.
Perhaps I'll get some 1st parts in the clarinet ensemble this summer.
Jan
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2011-06-21 14:12
Hi Jannlyn,
Everyone has pretty well voiced their opinions quite well but I really wanted to echo Bob's comment about playing around the bridge. He is right on. I've talkd about this many time on this DB.
I have played all parts (including bass and eefer) successfully but I remember when one of my pals and I covered the 3rd parts in a very good adult band. We had a blast but then the music was quite good.
Too many 1sts is not a good thing unless they all play well in tune due to the altissimo demands and really try to blend. The important thing is to get re-acclimated to this group but have fun.
HRL
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2011-06-21 14:25
I would love to divide the music up so that everyone gets a chance to play all parts but the director likes everyone to stick to one part.
I'm going to have fun regardless. And by playing the 3rd part I know I will be doing the right thing by trying to even out the section.
all is good
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Author: William
Date: 2011-06-21 15:12
Even if you are the best clarinetist in "the room", it is good public relations to promote your willingness to play the part that is most needed for sectional balance and total ensemble sound. That need is most often identified by the section leader or the conductor. Just going in a sitting down where you think you want to without regard for the ensembles needs is a rather selfish approach. In most community bands, you earn the right to play first by proving to everyone--conductor & other clarinet section members--that you are deserving of the privilage by first, "paying your dues" by doing the best job at whatever part you are assigned. Frankly, if you are just joining "for the summer" to "have fun" and think you can just sit wherever you choose without regard for ensemble needs or the feelings of other clarinetist's who have "paid their dues" by being loyal members over the years, you needn't show up for my concert band. Please understand that you are dealing with other peoples feelings (and egos) and try to see it from their point of view. You are probably a very good person and reasonably good clarinetist, but my advice would be to be willing to fill in where you are most needed and work your way up--not the other way around. No one likes people that "jump in line" or knock others down to be first through the door. With a prospective section distribution as you've described--2 first, 1 second, 1 third--it would probably be best for you to play second or third for better section balance. (If it were me making the decision, there would be only one first with two seconds and two thirds) None the less, its a small section and every part counts, so whatever part you are given, play it the best that you can and know that you are making the band a much better ensemble. Remember, it is much better to start at the bottom and work your way up, rather that start and the top and sink downward......cheers and good luck.
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Author: clariniano
Date: 2011-06-21 17:06
I had that situation several years ago when I was playing in a community band, and the conductor asked me to play the 3rd clarinet parts, and I remember how is was nice that he could actually hear the part. And I'm usually happier taking the 2nd or 3rd parts in a band, I don't like playing in the altissimo all the time and don't always want the solos, since I get plenty of that playing solo music with piano and chamber music with other instruments.
Meri
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Author: Dick
Date: 2011-06-21 18:23
When I was in a youth symphony in Tokyo in the 1960's, there were three clarinets. We simply took turns with the parts, sometimes concert to concert, sometimes piece to piece.
Dick
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-06-21 21:56
The tradition of "better players on first, worse on third" really has to end. It unbalances the group, and leads to poorer players not knowing how to handle first parts, and better players not knowing how to handle third parts. I'd say it's actually more rare to find someone who's really effective on third than someone who's really effective on first. As long as everyone's capable of playing all the parts, the three best players should be on first, second, and third.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2011-06-21 23:38
After a 45 year hiatus, I returned to the clarinet and joined a novice community band. As a player with previous experience I found myself playing 1st clarinet. After 3 years I was comfortable in the part but felt that I needed a challenge musically, so i joined another community band which plays at a more advanced level. I play 3rd clarinet in this band, and I've found it an interesting experience. 2nd and 3rd clarinets seem to have to work a lot harder musically than the 1st's. Playing mostly harmony parts is really sharpening up my reading and timing.
Tony F.
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2011-06-22 12:16
Tony THATS why I wanted to play 1st part. I'm NOT one of the better players and 1st part comes more easily to me and therefore (for me) more fun.
HOWEVER : I DID play 3rd part last night. Altho more challenging, I had fun and enjoyed being part of the group once again. Infact, the director was a bit surprised when I said I would be playing 3rd part - and added if he wanted me to play something else just to let me know and I would play wherever he needed me. I think playing 2nd and 3rd parts in clarinet ensemble helped.
And just to note: It turns out there was ONE 1st player, two 2nd players and four 3rd's.
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2011-06-22 17:05
This got long winded; I didn't mean for it to...
I play in 3 different community orchestras. In one of them, the 2 of us split the folders. If there's a piece that's technically challenging, I tend to take the first part since the other guy has more trouble with them. We both get solo parts when they come up, and I think splitting helps his confidence because he's not stuck with something he can't play, but he gets to play some first parts, too. In the other 2 groups, I play 2nd/utility. I think playing 2nd in orchestra is fun because I cover utility parts when they pop up (eefer, bass, and alto sax, and the occasional reading of an English Horn part if our oboe II player doesn't have her EH with her since I can read EH on Bb clarinet easily). I would have trouble playing first all the time from a confidence standpoint; nerves get the best of me from time to time. In the main group I play in, the 2 of us are about the same in terms of technical ability. We've played 1-2 in a couple different groups together since 2003 and it would be weird for me to switch. In the 3rd group, this upcoming concert will only be the 3rd concert I've played with them (they don't rehearse weekly; the conductor rounds up people from various groups for a couple rehearsals (more for strings) to put on a concert; I don't know if I'm an actual member or still considered a sub).
In the first college I went to, the Wind Ensemble had 18 clarinet players (6-6-6 + 1 bass; I was on the principal 2nd stand) by my junior year. I jumped down to alto clarinet (senior year) and bass clarinet (5th year) to help fill out the bottom sections. When I went to another school, the section was a lot smaller (2-2-2 + 1 Eb + 2 basses my first year, 2-3-3 + 2 basses my 2nd year; the first year I was principal 2 + Eb, 2nd year principal 1). That was a long winded way of me saying that personally, switching it up from time to time is fun and it keeps me on my toes.
Section balance is very important. Plus (someone correct me if I'm wrong), if parts are in octaves, the lower needs to come out louder than the upper. And, a lot of tonic notes tend to be in the lower parts. In orchestra, there are a lot of times I'm landing on tonic and the principal is on the 3rd above me.
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: Leanne E.
Date: 2011-06-22 21:21
I was faced with the same dilemma when I joined a community band a couple of months ago. I went ahead and jumped on 3rd, even though I'm a very talented player and very qualified to play 1st (and yes, I really want to, and still hope I get the chance next season!)
That said, I absolutely love my stand partner. She's a music teacher who is mostly an oboe and sax player, so I'm able to help her with trill fingerings, which makes me much more useful than sitting next to the section leader who laughed and told me he had reeds in his case older than me.
Like everyone else is saying, the part number is supposed to refer to the range of the part, not the difficulty. It's a bad idea to put all of the weak players on 3rd, because it has to lay the base of the sound triangle that most composers are trying to create within the section.
That's the thing about a good community band, so what? Besides, it means I'm saving my chops for jazz band where I get to wail in altissimo until my heart is content. So, I look at it as sharing.
Just take 3rd, trust me, it's not so bad.
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Author: 2cekce ★2017
Date: 2011-06-22 22:32
I'm going thru the same thing right now, however I emailed the section leader and asked if he could used more clarinets no matter what the part is I will play it so it will be 3rd part. thats just fine for me as I get to play in the altissimo all the time in my other band and so it gets a bit tiring. I'm handed the 1st part on every piece and the conductor even has me playing up to C five ledgers above as I'm the only one of 14 clarinets capable of doing it with taste. I also play the eefer so I'm used to the upper register of the instrument.
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