 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2011-03-04 17:45
I have been wanting to buy a new Buffet R13 for awhile. I almost did last year but plans fell through. My father has offered to buy me one this year and while I certainly appreciate it, how do I explain why you dont just go to Amazon.com and find the cheapest one if I have the opportunity to test several from a well respected Buffet dealer (Michael Leonard) and choose the one that plays the best for me.
I have written my reasons down for him, but it might be good for him to hear what other clarinetists say...
thank janlynn
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2011-03-04 18:21
Unlike almost every other mass produced item that can be purchased, no two instruments play alike.
Music combines a great deal of technical difficulty with a hard to quantify amount of personal expression: the best instrument you can afford to own is a must.
For these reasons you need to go to the dealer and try several and not simply look for the best deal.
James
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2011-03-04 18:21)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-03-04 22:42
janlynn -
The R13 is a great clarinet. Probably 95% of the U.S. professional clarinetists play one.
However, there's a lot of variation from one to the next, and you need to play a bunch of them to find one that works for you.
A good thread on what to listen for is http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=275609&t=275585.
If you're not confident about picking one out yourself, you should get a local pro to go along with you, play the clarinets and listen to you playing them, and help you decide.
There are good players who pre-select R13s and supply customized barrels and mouthpieces. Walter Grabner http://www.clarinetxpress.com/Buffet.html and Greg Smith http://www.gregory-smith.com/Hand.html are two who sponsor and follow this board.
Good luck. You'll feel good every time you play it.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-03-04 22:54
Actually Mike Leonard does a good job selecting clarinets himself. His overhauls seal like a drum and last a LONG time. I trust Mike to offer good clarinets.
......................Paul Aviles
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2011-03-06 00:36
Another vote for Mike. He's a fabulous musician as well as an expert technician, and I trust him implicitly with all the repairs on my clarinets and saxophones. Mike can certainly pick fine instruments.
I have also had fabulous results working with Lisa Canning, and Ken Shaw mentioned the highly-respected services of Walter Grabner and Greg Smith above.
If you're in the Boston area and want to keep it local, then Mike Leonard is a go-to guy who won't BS you.
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2011-03-06 15:36
It doesnt look like I'm going to be able to convince my father that being able to try out several clarinets and have the expertise of Michael is the best way to go.
If he goes elsewhere, what are the risks hes taking that i need to watch out for once I have the instrument in my hands?
I mean, I recently saw a thread that there are Buffet fakes. How would I know?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-03-06 15:46
A second "t" in the word "Buffet" might be an indicator.
Likewise, look for "Crampton" instead of "Crampon."
These are enough to sort odf protect the counterfeiter, but enough to sucker in the unwary.
Better by far to buy from a known source, if you feel you MUST succumb to the threats of the Buffet Mafia. My choice was a Leblanc/Backun clarinet. Sounds every bit as lovely as anR13,and has the Backun barrel and bell setup. Intonation is excellent, too! Not to mention the nice comments I get from my section mates.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-03-06 15:56
Clarinets of the same make and model vary a great deal. In my personal experience, I've owned two Buffet professional grade instruments that were simply unplayable.
In one, ordered from my local music shop, the intonation was horrid. One note would be flat, and the next one up the scale sharp. There was no way to anticipate that magnitude of change and correct before the the foul tuning would be noticed by a listener. I spent a lot of money trying with respected US clarinet technicians and failed to make that instrument useful for anything but playing alone "for drill."
The second Buffet, bought as a good deal on "the" auction site was an R13 A from a bad batch. After a lot of investigation, The major problem was that the upper joint had been reamed oversize --by about .002 inches in diameter. that made the left hand clarion go sharper as you went up the scale --with the thumb C being more than a 1/4 tone sharp. No cure short of re-making the upper joint. In addition, it was horribly stuffy, as one tech told me, grinning, "Boy that sucker really fights you, doesn't it?" That horn was made playable, barely, by using a severely reverse tapered barrel to sorta make up for the too-large upper bore --along with a 442-pitch mouthpiece. With an untapered barrel, it was possible to make the high clarion go sharp enough to turn the horn into a Bb
My third Buffet, purchased used from Walter Grabner with return privileges, is pretty wonderful. It still has a very flat chalumeau F and E; the upper staff E and F are sharp, the clarion is uncooperative, and it takes a lot of effort to make expressive nuances.
With this experience, I would NEVER buy a Buffet (or any other instrument) without a trial. Further there is so much variation that I'd want to compare a number of instruments and choose the most friendly of the bunch.
... and I once auditioned 70 tuning barrels over a period of a couple of hours. Of those only 4 were keepers based on tone color and responsiveness. Later, I found the two I purchased to cause wide 12ths.
So start your selection with a tuner at hand.
Good luck. This should discover for you a wonderful partner in music making.
Bob Phillips
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Author: lllebret
Date: 2011-03-06 19:01
Make sure that you can return the new instrument for a full refund if you find the instrument unsuitable and alos play the new instrument for your teacher (assuming you have a lesson teacher) and in ensembles where you can check for intonation, flexibility, response and tone in real world conditions (a beautiful dark sound might not project enough - a slotted, locked-in clarinet with perfiect intonation on a tuner might not have the flexibility to play with the loud sharp flutes, etc).
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-03-06 22:53
According to the listing, the R13s at Amazon are actually sold by Brook Mays. The original company went through bankruptcy in 2006. You might be able to convince your Dad that the subsequent entity using the name might not be the best company to deal with. Also, you can point out that you won't necessarily get the best price by going through Amazon. Buffet sets a minimum price that retailers can advertise but sometimes, if you call one of the online/mail order sellers and ask for their best price you can do better. Since you appear to be in Massachusetts, perhaps you could convince your Dad to take you or let you go to Weiner Music in New York. They will have a number of instruments for you to try out and, if you contact them in advance, will have them set up for you when you get there. (Or, unless they've changed their policy, will send out three for you to choose from.) Their advertised price is at least as good as the one on Amazon and, having dealt with them in the past, I think they would be a better source, if the local price is more than your Dad is willing to pay.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-03-07 00:43
Honestly, I would tell him that I would rather him NOT purchase me a horn if I can't try it first. I'd tell him to save his money cause there's a very good chance that it will either force me to learn bad habits to compensate or it just wont be able to be played.
I think the better method of showing him why testing clarinets is important is to put it into a perspective he might relate to. Would you buy a pair of sneakers on the assumption the size is correct without trying them on? Would you purchase a TV without seeing it in the store and comparing its picture to others? Would you purchase a sound system without hearing it to make sure it sounds good? Would you purchase a car without test driving it because on paper it looks good? Explain how making an uninformed decision based on price or popularity isn't necessarily the RIGHT decision. He may not understand music, but maybe he can understand going to the market and picking the BEST tomato in a rack of tomatoes vs picking the first one you see cause its on top.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-03-07 10:09
You may also try Yamaha. The SEV and CSGs are incredible horns and are selling for less than R13. I got mine for $2200 just a few years ago.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-03-07 20:02
Alexi's advice is right on.
BUT, two TV sets of the same model and maker are far more likely to be functionally identical than two R13s.
There is far to much variability in clarinet manufacture.
Bob Phillips
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Author: shahn
Date: 2011-03-08 06:42
The price of a new R13 is same everywhere. . Buffet Crampon requires every dealer, mail order included, to charge a set minimum price for each model. . So it's advantageous to go test several at the dealer.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2011-03-08 16:00
Janlynn,
If your father is set on purchasing over the internet and you cannot change his mind, here are two things you need to know.
1- As far as I know *new* Buffet clarinets are sold at the same price everywhere per Buffet policy, so the extra cost of going local will be in sales tax only (+ no shipping).
2- If you can choose the online store, go to a place like Muncy Winds or Grabner. They will actually send you 3 or 4 instruments to try and you can send back the ones you don't like.
Good luck and I hope you find a good one!
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2011-03-08 16:31
Thanks for the support and suggestions everyone.
Dad is in a bad mood lately because of floods and roof leaks. I havent been able to approach him.
I do hope he changes his mind when he has more time to think about it.
Jan
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-03-08 23:07
"The price of a new R13 is same everywhere."
No it isn't. Some dealers charge more than the minimum -- in some cases, considerably more. (The MSRP is quite a bit higher.) On the other hand, some dealers get around the minimum by selling instruments as "B-Stock."
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2011-03-09 12:51
Good News ....my father is going to let me get it from Michael Leonard. My teacher will go with me to help. Just have to wait a few weeks. Im so excited.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-03-09 14:26
Outstanding! To paraphrase one of my favorite literary characters, "I wish you the joy of your new clarinet."
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2011-03-21 15:29
April 16th I get to go pick out my new clarinet.
I plan on playing with the local wind symphony this summer. All rehearsals are inside but the actual concert is outside. I know it is not good to play outdoors with a wood clarinet, but will one outdoor concert really do that much harm? It doesnt make sense to rehearse with my new clarinet and then the day of the concert use the old one.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-03-21 15:46
I play outside in the summer with wooden clarinets, and have done so since the mid 1970s. Generally speaking, if it is warm enough for you to be comfortable without a jacket on, it is warm enough to play outside with a wooden clarinet.
For colder weather or rainy days, keep a "beater" instrument of plastic handy. This can double for you if you are forced to participate in a marching band.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-03-21 15:49
Just depends on the day. You may want to avoid getting it rained on, but the worst is cold weather. You DON'T want to blow through a wooden horn outside if it's under 50 degrees fahrenheit.
..............Paul Aviles
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