 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-03-29 18:40
Thanks to a post by "Old Geezer" I was skimming through a scholarly treatise in which various top drawer pedigogs were covered to include Elsa Ludewig-Verdehr. One section goes over her teaching techniques and I found the following quote:
"She continued to work with this student on her new thumb position, physically moving the student’s thumb.
First of all it [the right thumb] really must not point down hill, it must point uphill; thumbnail pointing to the ceiling…and get that rectangle between the first finger and thumb."
I take from this that the position would necessitate a slightly "higher" thumbrest postion. Further, it implies to me that one would form a straight line across the lower side of the right forearm through the wrist. This is opposed to my current position where I let the thumb "sag" and the straight line is formed across the TOP of the forearm and wrist.
The advantage to Verdehr's Thumb (as I am interpreting it) is that the first, second and third fingers line up much better. HOWEVER, as I execute this position, the right pinky necessarily becomes curved to hit its respective keys.
SO......................
I am putting out an APB to all Verdehr students to verify that I have this right since it is a big change and I would like to take the greatest advantage out of this hand position technique before I incorporate it or discard it.
..................thank you,
.............................Paul Aviles
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-03-29 22:44
Attachment: thumb1.JPG (553k)
Attachment: thumb2.JPG (591k)
I didn't study with Verdehr, but it sounds like what she was trying to teach the student in that example is basically the same way I hold the clarinet in my right hand. I've never moved my thumbrest. (See attached pictures.)
I've never given any consideration to what my forearms or pinkies do (apart from pressing the right key at the right time). I just do what works and (to me, at least) feels natural.
Post Edited (2010-03-29 22:59)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-03-30 00:58
Dear mrn,
Interesting perspective. Since many hold the clarinet around forty-five degrees it is somewhat subjective exactly what up and down really is. You seem to take the notion that the clarinet is parallel to the ground in this example the way you illustrate the photos. I never thought of it this way. But "my" position is one of completely relaxing the thumb under the weight of the horn (hence "saggy thumb"). By turning my thumb "UP" in your illustration all I would do is have a different angle on "DOWN" in the playing position. So I think the system is better thought of as MOUTHPIECE=UP and BELL=DOWN. This way the wrist is now forced to angle the knuckles closer to the floor (thus making an essential difference to their approach to the keys).
Then again this is how I read the text from page 93 of the following:
http://etd.lib.fsu.edu/theses_1/available/etd-11042005-165943/unrestricted/DeesTreatise.pdf
Elsa, where are you ?????
..........................Paul Aviles
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-03-30 17:01
Attachment: thumb3.jpg (322k)
Attachment: thumb4.jpg (318k)
Attachment: thumb5.jpg (324k)
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Interesting perspective. Since many hold the clarinet around
> forty-five degrees it is somewhat subjective exactly what up
> and down really is. You seem to take the notion that the
> clarinet is parallel to the ground in this example the way you
> illustrate the photos. I never thought of it this way.
Ohh...OK. I see what you're saying. Your "up" is along the longitudinal axis of the instrument (i.e., up and down the bore). My "up," as you correctly noted, is perpendicular to your "up"--more specifically, it's perpendicular to the bore and toward the finger holes (or, if you prefer, away from the thumbrest).
So if I rotate my point of view 90 degrees....it looks like my thumb is still "up." In fact, the thumbrest seems to be made to accommodate this position (see the last picture--incidentally, this is the lower joint of a late 1980s model Buffet R-13 I'm holding).
The problem with trying to glean useful information from this dissertation is that we don't know the context in which Dr. Verdehr is giving instruction--in other words, it's not entirely clear what "bad habit" the student was exhibiting at the time. It sounds like the student was somehow supporting the instrument with more than her thumb (gripping it with her fingers or placing a finger under the side keys or behind the pinky keys, for instance), but it's not entirely clear.
Perhaps the reason none of her students have responded to this thread yet is that there is nothing really out of the ordinary about what she advocates with regard to right hand position. It's likely that most of her students come to her with decent hand position already, so she doesn't really have to address the issue with them. They don't want to misrepresent what she teaches, so they don't really have anything to say. Maybe this episode described in the dissertation is just an extreme case of a student with really bad/counterproductive hand position.
Post Edited (2010-03-30 17:20)
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