 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2011-06-25 01:18
The most significant thing in that announcement would Tom's claim that this horn is silver plated. He couldn't have chosen silver on an Ebonite horn due to tarnish from exposure to Sulfur I guess. If the mechanical construction of the keywork is significantly better than the Lyrique, than Tom would've successfully addressed one of the most significant complaint against his instruments.
I wonder if the alternate Eb lever (as mentioned on his website) will be introduced onto the Lyrique G-1. The video does not show a dedicated mounting post that would have been the preferred mean to mount this lever.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-06-25 09:36
I liked the adjustable crow's foot on the G-1...great idea!
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2011-06-25 18:48
I have owned 5 Ridenours- 3 TR147s and 2 Ariosos. All were consistent, with my Ridenour's final 147 model one being the best of the group. I look forward to reviews of the new wood model.
richard smith
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2011-06-25 18:58
What I am a bit surprised about is the fact that Thomas still opts for crow's foot when he voiced his dissatisfaction towards the arrangement. Nevertheless, the inclusion of adjusters is something that I must second as invaluable. (It is only within this year that I've truly come to appreciate this unfortunately)
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Author: DNBoone
Date: 2011-06-25 19:25
I have the adjustable crows foot on my Opus Bb. I love it...and I hate it more that my Concerto A doesn't have it.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-06-25 23:08
What's the point of adjusting screws on the crow's foot when they're easily adjusted without them?
I've never seen any where the adjusting screws weren't tight.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-06-27 03:55
Excellent. I look forward to hearing from purchasers and people who try it. I wonder if he'll have enough ready to bring to clarinetfest this year. That'd be an ideal place to get the word out.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: DNBoone
Date: 2011-06-27 12:11
@ Chris
I find that the adjustable screws for the crows feet help as some of the corks/felts wear down. Rather than taking it back to the tech to have cork/felt added or the pads adjusted, I just tighten the screws a bit. There is also another adjustment screw on the left-hand F#/C# key to help with the same thing. Not to mention the bridge adjustment key too!
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Author: William
Date: 2011-06-27 15:33
When my crows need adjustment, I just grab my needle pliers and bend them into shape. Same for the long keys.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-06-27 17:45
William wrote:
> When my crows need adjustment, I just grab my needle pliers and
> bend them into shape. Same for the long keys.
But turning a screw would make the novice player or player not comfortable with repairs a lot less anxious.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-06-28 07:12
About 99% (maybe more) of the time I see adjustment issues with the crow's foot it's because of the keys bending. If good materials in correct thickness are used for the crow's foot linakge and are glued with good glue then they almsot never fall or wear. They are much more likely to wear if there is a small adjustment screw point (even if rounded) pushing against them instead of the normal flath foot. Or maybe there's just a plastic/nylon screw with no material (maybe noisy). It's also very common that it gets out of adjustment in a way that turning the adjustment screw would solve one problem but create another.
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Author: Clarnetamaphone
Date: 2011-06-28 15:52
disclaimer: I am the producer of the g1 clarinet. Clarnibass, it's been my experience that For the crow's foot there is no perfect solution. Every time you try to make something idiot proof some one manages to come up with a better idiot. Go figure.
Having said that, I believe you're right in most all you say: If the keys are made well and the pads and glues are of high quality and executed well there should be no problem with adjustment. I don't foresee any with the sturdiness of the mechanism of the g1. But it has been my experience that some people are heavy handed naturally and can bang up the sturdiest mechanism in fairly short order. Others have lighter touches and greater touch sensitivity--it's a genetic thing. Those lucky ones can play a mechanism for years without any resulting adjustment problems. Others, with less touch sensitivity, bang keys because they otherwise can't really feel the keys all that well. It's not because they're bad people; they just lost the genetic lottery when it comes to touch sensitivity. I know this from practical experience working with scores of players, but because it has been confirmed in a study on this very subject done by the science dept. in Ft. Worth at TCU about a decade ago.
But, if the set screws are stable and well-made, I've found using them is the best overall method for the average player to be able to correct most adjustment problems without bending keys and then having to deal with the problems that inevitably ensue. These set screws can be a life saver when you find the f/c-e/b are out of adjustment just before a concert and there's no time to get to your repair tech and you don't feel comfortable with opening the can of worms bending keys can quickly turn out to be, or if you don't have the tools you need to correct any problems resulting from adjustments you might try to make willy nilly. I decided to put these screws on the clarinet because of all the possibilities for emergency adjustment this one is the simplest to do and fraught with the fewest amount of peril for the greatest number of players. Perhaps I'm wrong--if I am consider this fact: just because the feature is there players are not compelled to use it.
Ridenour Clarinet Products
1-888-AKUSTIK
ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-06-28 16:41
I was not aware that there is a woodwind factory in Texas. Is this to be another custom operation like, e.g., Guy Chadash's or Morrie Backun's?
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-06-28 18:31
I think when he said he was the maker he meant that he is from Ridenour Clarinet Products. Tom's video suggests that the actual manufacturing is done elsewhere.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-06-28 22:42
Why speculate what Tom might have meant when he is participating in this thread and can answer for himself?
jnk
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-06-29 00:38
Jack Kissinger wrote:
> Why speculate what Tom might have meant when he is
> participating in this thread and can answer for himself?
>
> jnk
Technically Clarnetamaphone is Ted Ridenour not Tom.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-06-29 03:49
I guess my eyes are going bad. I'd swear I saw Tom Ridenour when I originally looked at Clarnetamaphone's poster information. But I must have misread the 3-letter name beginning with T. Possibly what threw me was his comment that he is the producer and I simply expected that to be Tom. But, my question stands as corrected:
Why speculate what Ted might have meant when he is participating in this thread and can answer for himself?
jnk
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-06-29 13:32
Jack Kissinger wrote:
> I guess my eyes are going bad. I'd swear I saw Tom Ridenour
> when I originally looked at Clarnetamaphone's poster
> information. But I must have misread the 3-letter name
> beginning with T. Possibly what threw me was his comment that
> he is the producer and I simply expected that to be Tom. But,
> my question stands as corrected:
>
> Why speculate what Ted might have meant when he
> is participating in this thread and can answer for himself?
>
> jnk
I'm not sure why you're making a big deal about it, but if you don't want anyone else commenting on your questions then maybe you should send them via a private e-mail rather than posting them on a public message board.
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Author: dibble
Date: 2011-06-29 14:27
i have been called "heavy handed" by the ridenours when I told them of my problems regarding the cheap glue used in the pads of the chinese-made lyrique bass clarinet (which sits rusting away in a closet due to unplayability) that I bought from them. The pads do not stay put. Many reputable repairmen in NYC (including those at Robertos woodwinds) told me this is due to cheap keywork and cheap glue behind the pads. I did not appreciate the blame put upon my technique on the bass clarinet which is not bad on a horn that seats well.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-06-29 14:40
dibble wrote:
> Many reputable repairmen in NYC
> (including those at Robertos woodwinds) told me this is due to
> cheap keywork and cheap glue behind the pads. I did not
> appreciate the blame put upon my technique on the bass clarinet
> which is not bad on a horn that seats well.
Unfortunately easily bent keywork seems to be a common "feature" on lower cost bass clarinets. Any weakness in the key material tends to be magnified on bass clarinets since the keys are so much longer. This was an issue long before Ridenour started selling his clarinets as I have a Malerne bass c.1960's that the keys will bend on if you so much as look at them funny.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-06-29 17:51
Steve,
"I'm not sure why you're making a big deal about it..."
That's your map. I simply posted a rhetorical question, "Why bother to respond to a question when you don't KNOW the answer and someone who clearly does know is participating in the thread."
"... but if you don't want anyone else commenting on your questions then maybe you should send them via a private e-mail rather than posting them on a public message board."
I welcome anyone's response if they know what they are talking about. "I think when he said ... he meant ..." does not strike me as the statement of someone who knows what he is talking about. I don't think anyone who posts a question, particularly one of fact rather than opinion, should have to say, "Please don't respond if you don't know the answer." I consider that request implicit in any question posted to the Board.
I do begin to wonder why you feel it necessary to take it on yourself to act as spokesperson for a company you don't appear to have any direct connection with -- responding to my question, rationalizing away a disgruntled customer's complaint. Even though I was looking for a response from a specific person when I asked my question, I put it on this Board instead of in an e-mail because I expect the answer will be of interest to others. I think that's a reasonable expectation, given other questions that have been raised regarding this new offering from Ridenour Clarinet Products. I also expect that I am not the only person who would like more information about these clarinets straight from the horse's mouth.
A problem with this Board -- and I'm not the first to point this out -- is that, too often, people speculate when they don't know and end up putting out incorrect factual information. Sometimes, a question has no answer. Sometimes a question has an answer but no one who knows the answer is available to answer it. In those cases, thoughtful speculation (such as yours in this case) may be the best a questioner can hope for. But, IMNSHO, such speculation is worse than useless when someone who knows the facts is available to clear things up.
jnk
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Author: Clarnetamaphone
Date: 2011-06-29 20:00
Here in Texas we do some of the assembly and all of the set up, finishing, tuning, bore work (as needed) and hand tuning. The bodies are made off shore in China and in Taiwan. As for the keys of the bass clarinets: we don't get very many complaints. Personally, I've played some of these clarinets for years and never had to make any adjustments at all. If the problems of padding and key work you're complaining about were common we would have made major efforts to correct them--otherwise we would have no sales as a consequence. The last thing any makers wants is to provide unworkable products. (There actually was about a 1 year period where we did not sell the low C bass––can't recall the exact period of time––because we were not pleased with key work). Once the mechanical problems were corrected and passed muster we resumed sales and if there have been complaints since then I am unaware of them. I don't recall any and I asked Ted, whose memory is much better than mine, and he doesn't recall any either. That notwithstanding, we have made further recent improvements that I think are very impressive. You always try to keep improving on what is already good––all of us who are trying to serve the clarinet community are doing that.
I hope this answers your questions. I know the board is not for self-promotion and I don't believe the above responses are doing that--I'm just trying to clarify and respond to statements and questions of participants.
For the record, I am the designer and producer of the clarinets under discussion.
tom ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products
1-888-AKUSTIK
ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-06-29 20:12
Thank you, Tom. I, at least, feel like I have a better picture of what you are doing.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-06-29 20:28
Jack,
It's a moot point now that Tom/Ted has answered, but I'd like to state that I don't blindly speculate when I post comments. I based my response to you on the available evidence at the time and I had a very high level of confidence that I was correct. I wouldn't have posted it otherwise.
I also didn't in any way attempt to rationalize away Dibble's complaint. I merely related that I have had a similar experience with a different brand bass clarinet. No ill will was intended and I feel that my comment served to offer some perspective on how the issue can affect instruments regardless of brand.
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2012-06-24 21:14
I was lucky enough for Tom and Ted to send me one of their new G1 Bb clarinets to give a try. Having owned 3 of their instruments 2 of which were prototypes they wanted me to give one a try to see what I thought of the horn. Here is my assessment.
Looks:
The wood is not completely blacked out. The reddish of the natural grain color shows through, which to me is just beautiful. The bell is ring less. All tenons to have rings. There is an adjustable thumb rest similar to the Buffet style with the same about of movement. He does have his individual mounted trill keys on the upper joint in the inline fashion. The case is similar to the Buffet cases in color with a red interior. I only saw one drawback on the case. The clarinet does come with both 65 and 66mm barrels but there is only 1 barrel space so the 2nd barrel is in the accessory compartment.
Keys:
The best way I can say is that the feel of the keys in my hands is nice and natural. Pick up the horn and every this if comfortably positioned. I am happy with the movement of the keys. Everything feels good and tight with excellent movement with not a lot of “noise”. Both right and left “pinky” keys actually sit a little higher that on my other 3 Bb clarinets which is really nice. There is the adjustable crow’s foot under the low B and E naturals. I must say the strangest thing to me was the octave key. Instead of a standard pad on the register tube there is a larger diameter tube with a pad that has a long slender cone that goes down into the vent tube. I have never seen this before and was intrigued by it. Oh and yes this has the standard what everyone is used to shaped octave key and not the ergonomic key that is on many of Tom’s other soprano clarinets.
Playing:
I had to use the 65mm barrel personally but I rarely play Bb so my playing tends to be flat. I first did as others do and played a range of notes with the tuner in front of me. I started with the open G which is something Tom told once over the phone a few years back. With the G in tune I went to Bb and it was spot on no need to lip up or down same with B nat. and C which is what every group I play with tunes to. I then went C above the staff and I personally had to tighten my embouchure a little but I do not attribute this to the horn but more my embouchure is used to playing Contra Bass. I pulled out several exercise books and played through several exercises, which sorry folks I am lazy and do not do very often, so correctness was not my goal (thank God). I was eyeballing the lights on the tuner while playing and when they went flat or sharp I would look more at the tuner and was able to see that I was staying in tune with out any problem.
Overall:
I do not compare clarinets between makes like others to. My Yamaha does not feel the same in my hands as my Leblanc, or as my Buffet. They all feel different in my hands. I will have to say that I think the G1 is an excellent horn. In my case the feel is just natural, as in pick it up put the mouthpiece on and go to playing. Everything just feels to me in the exact right spot for my hands. It is every easy to play with my Grabner MP on 2 ½ Mitchell Lurie reeds and I used the same reeds on the MP included and it was just as easy, but I like my K14 Grabner more (personal preference). If I was in the market for a new Bb and knew my wife would not shoot me I would not hesitate in purchasing this horn. I like it, it is easy to play, well-constructed, and an all-around great horn.
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-06-24 23:43
Bobby -
You say "I rarely play Bb." What's your usual instrument?
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-06-25 01:47
Well I must say Tom is one of the nicest men I've ever met. He's alway been very nice to me since his days way back in his days in Florida. He's really about the closest you can get regarding someone making a horn just for you. Will any other companies put this much effort into making a custom horn? Nope. You can also get a fantastic mouthpiece to help fit the horn.
The plastic horns were not Buffets, but I never played a horn in the altissimo register and the dreaded break form high C to D or C#. With Tom's horn it was effortless. I look forward to playing the wood clarinet.
Tom, if you read this and would like me to play test one, I'd be honored.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-06-25 06:00)
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2012-06-25 20:54
Ken,
I am normally on Contra bass/alto or bass with the occasional alto or Basset in a clarinet choir. When I play Bb I am usually filling in for some one that is out or for a 3rd in a 2 clarinet chamber group.
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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