 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Sarah Y
Date: 2009-10-20 16:53
Hi
I'm trying to find out about my old clarinet - so far the web is drawing a blank for me, and the few posts I can find on the forum are about newer models, post B&H takeover.
Mine is stamped LaFleur & son 15 green street Leicester Square London on upper, lower and bell. There is a faint Made in Paris stamp on each of the upper and lower joints. All parts are wood. I think the keywork is silver plated - its gone a bit green where it touches the wood, but shines up nicely with some silver polish, but could be nickle? There are no visible cracks or splits but the pads are very leaky and the upper register key doesnt sit completely square onto its mounting at the front.
As a result you really have to coax the notes out - the upper register notes are better.
Its an Albert system I think (def not a Boehm anyway!) - has the wraparound register key, open first tone hole of lower joint but rings on the other two, etc.
Another mystery is that the lower joint is much shorter than my Selmer Odyssee Bb at 22cm (although the barrel, upper and bell are the same lengths as the Selmer) so its full length excluding mouthpiece is 57cm, and it seems to tune to B natural rather than Bb, however much I pull out the barrell! It also seems to have a much wider bore (11mm) than the modern Selmer. Its also a lot lighter in weight.
I'm really trying to find out more about its age - from a previous post I am assuming it must be pre-1911 as LaFleur moved from Leicester square then, but also why would it be a B natural? Or is it just a very sharp Bb?!
Thanks
Sarah
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-10-20 17:20
A pitcher (as in beer) or a picture (as in photo) would certainly help.
Could it be a High-Pitch instrument? Or is it a "marriage" (avoiding the term "mongrel") of some sort?
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sarah Y
Date: 2009-10-20 17:23
I think I need a pitcher to get it to play! I'll have a go at getting some pictures of my Heinz 57 on the board - wathc this space. There are no serial numbers to hard to tell if its a mismatch.
Sarah
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-10-20 19:03
Yes, it is an Albert system. Not uncommon that the wraparound register key doesn't sit square - it's a function of pad thickness and accidental bending. No problem as long as it's tight.
When you put the individual joints side to side with your other instrument, do the positions of the tone holes loosely match, or is everything just eg 10% shorter? Leave the barrel aside for the comparison, start with the throat "A" hole or the first finger hole as a reference point.
Interesting - I've never seen a barrel with a metal lined socket...
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sarah Y
Date: 2009-10-20 19:52
Attachment: 20102009251.jpg (35k)
Attachment: 20102009249.jpg (46k)
The holes are a bit all over the place - I've attached photos to show. The barrel is much shorter now I compare them properly! The upper joint is the same length and lower is longer on the Bb as you will see. By the way the middle tenon joint is also metal lined.
The 1st and 3rd left hand match, as does the third right hand hole. Maybe a longer barrel will turn it into a Bb!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-20 21:56
You won't be able to bring the pitch down so the scale is equalised throughout the range by using a longer barrel as the clarinet is built to sharp or high pitch which is A452Hz (as opposed to A440Hz).
Putting a long barrel will flatten the throat and LH notes more significantly than the RH notes, so the scale will be out (likewise using a short barrel of less than 66mm on a standard clarinet won't raise the pitch of a clarinet built to 440Hz equally over the entire range).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2009-10-22 11:42
This one is a "simple system" Albert horn. Early in the C20 Lafleur (founded around 1780, instrument sellers and music publishers) were agents for a number of french makers including Francois Millereau. Are there any other markings? I'm sure Chris P is right that this is a HP instrument which would place it early C20 or earlier in C19.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2009-10-22 12:36
Are you completely sure this clarinet is made of wood? The metal lining is common in hard rubber clarinets from the early 20th century. Also, the fact that the keys have turned greenish where they touch the body of the instrument is something I've seen often on old hard rubber clarinets. The wood-grained look can be extremely deceptive. Take a close look at the ends of the tenons under a bright light with a strong magnifying glass.
If silver polish brightened up the keys, then they're silver-plated. Silver polish (or rubbing with anything moist) will clean dirt off nickel, but won't polish nickel to brightness.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sarah Y
Date: 2009-10-22 12:40
Thanks for the extra info Chris. No, there are no other markings other than the ones mentioned in my original post.
Are HP instruments in B then? How odd!
Sarah
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sarah Y
Date: 2009-10-22 13:36
Hi Lelia
I am almost 100 % its wood - the grain of the bell matches too well inside and out and ther is a chip from the end of one of the joints which looks like wood not hard rubber. Also when you sniff down the joints they smell like my grandmothers furniture! (Although I suppose her furniture might be made of hard rubber...)
There's no tenon cork at all. Both ends of the barrel are lined with about 175mm each end in metal, as is the socket joint on the lower joint. The rest of the joints appear to be lined with waxed thread.
Sarah
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-22 14:34
Sarah, your clarinet is still technically in Bb, but it's high pitch Bb which by modern standards (we're now A=440Hz) is somewhere in between Bb and B. It will only play in tune with other HP instruments (built to A=452Hz) from the late 1800s to the 1930s.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sarah Y
Date: 2009-10-26 20:06
Oh dear - guess I'll just be playing this on my own then! (It must be a bad HP as it is exactly in turn with a B on the piano!)
Sarah
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-26 20:14
You could always call it a Cb clarinet!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sarah Y
Date: 2009-10-26 20:50
Splendid idea Chris! (Sorry I didnt explain that right - when I play a C on the piano its a B on the clarinet!)
Sarah
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-26 20:57
You've got a sharp pitch C clarinet (or a nearly Db clarinet by modern standards).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sarah Y
Date: 2009-10-26 20:57
I think I'll stick to Cb. Sounds better than a high pitch Bb!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sarah Y
Date: 2009-10-26 21:05
Hurrah! A unique instrument. I just need a sharp pitch piano to accompany me in my sharp pitch music!
Sarah
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-10-26 21:34
Chris, I wonder what would happen if Sarah would do the old rope-down-the-bore trick - shouldn't this lower the pitch?
How thick should that rope be? (less than 15mm, I presume)
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
