 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-23 11:50
Hi,
Here’s the situation. As I get toward the age where I can see the end of my playing days getting closer, I wonder what to do with my instruments, mouthpieces, classic accessories, and music. Obviously, I could live to play for two decades yet but I do not think that’s realistic.
A more traditional outcome would be that nature would suddenly intervene. But then, I have long life on both sides of the family and have had relatives that carried on professional lives well into their 80s. So what to do with my trusted and true woodwind “stuff” that has served me so very, very well? BTW, I take extremely good care of all my equipment and it shows.
I own nothing of museum quality (so giving to a foundation is not an option). But, most of my instruments are sought-after professional models that would bring very nice prices at auction. I do not want to give any of my instruments to a school or an aspiring musician unless that person is a relative who would appreciate the sentimental as well as the musical worth of the gift. As a former HS band director, I have seen what happens when someone gives an “old” instrument to a school and all too often, it is not pretty; my equipment deserves a better fate!
A really compelling choice is for me to transition from the classic equipment I am playing to more current instruments like Yamaha woodwinds, standard MPs (I’ve got some classic stuff that is really going for high prices on an auction site that I do not play or even like the sound of any more), and more modern – and perhaps better – readily available accessories. As an example, I have a Yamaha YTS 475 that blows my Mark VI tenor pretty much off the stand but the VI is still my gig choice. Also, I find new clarinets by many makers to be really wonderful and greatly improved in all ways. And, most of these items are much cheaper.
I have a cousin that has an extensive and valuable collection of fabrics from Asia that are of museum quality. We have discussed our mutual “disposal problem” several times over a sunset glass or two of wine and he said “if I give my stuff to a museum, it is likely to be put into storage and forgotten.”
So, good mature-in-age BB friends, have you had any similar conundrums and what course of action have you decided to take? If I sold off everything and bought new instruments, I would pocket some significant cash (that could be then directed as I wished/willed). Also, I would not have the leave classic instrument disposal to my family - who might or might not be up to the task.
HRL
PS I have had numerous musical pals Go West recently so that may be why I am having such maudlin thoughts.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-12-23 13:07
I'm not an "oldster" but can't your will indicate where the instruments should go, or (in general) how much they are worth or how much they "ought" to sell for???
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-23 13:17
Hi Katrina,
Hey, "youngsters" thoughtful response are always appreciated. I just never figured there would be much interest with such issues.
Sure, I could indicate in a will what should happen but I not sure that is a sure-fire way to proceed. Things could get complicated.
HRL
Post Edited (2006-12-23 13:20)
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Author: Bill
Date: 2006-12-23 13:59
My conviction is that none of my clarinets would bring in the money I spent on them. I have (no letter), L, M, N, and P-series Selmers, 1940s Leblancs, a B&H 1010, an Albert System "false Martel," and mouthpieces by a young Rick Sayre, Selmer crystals from before the "Clarion" name, and really old blanks from the 1920s with names on them that cannot be researched they are so long forgotten ("O. Schreiber"). Unless a piece of equipment has the word BUFFET or KASPAR on it, it will bring in nickels on the dollar. I was the one to enjoy it ... that's where the appreciation, apparently, ends.
I had this conversation just yesterday with my partner, who has asked me to create a document listing the equipment and the estimated value (also to draw up a will).
Bill.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
Post Edited (2006-12-23 14:47)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-12-23 14:07
Hi Hank --
Funny you should bring this up right now. We just had a note this morning from a widow who wants to donate her late hubby's tuba to the community band -- which donation we will welcome.
But to address your issue, there are auction houses which specialize in estate liquidations (Sothebys, for one, as well as lesser-known, more local firms). In my experience, many of these folks are very knowledgeable about the value of things, and will do their best to see that they are handled properly and sold at appropriate prices.
As an example, a friend recently had to dispose of her parents' collection of farm antiques -- including hundreds and hundreds of strands of old sleigh bells which her father had collected for years, anticipating that they would some day be valuable (he was right -- read on).
A regional estate auction house took the sleigh bells and auctioned them off just a few at a time, so as not to glut the market. They used live on-line bidding as well as on-site bidding, and eventually sold all the bells. Bottom line to my friend (besides a clean basement) was a very tidy check (in the thousands of dollars) each month for about a year's time.
If they can do that for rusty old sleigh bells, they can certainly do it for musical instruments, either now or after you are gone. It's your call.
If it were I, I would hold onto what I loved, and leave detailed instructions to my executor in my will (or, as our attorney suggests, in a codicil to my will) about their worth and disposal.
But I hope you intend to hang around for a while -- we still haven't had that chance to play together!
Susan
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-23 14:21
Hi Bill & Susan,
Bill,
Interesting that you had the same conversation as well. Just as you, I was the one to enjoy the equipment which I really did/do. Fortunately, most of my items do have the "correct" brand names but some of the things you mention sound really interesting and very unique. Too bad that in some cases, you are the only one to appreciate many of those values.
Susan,
Yes, I want to hang around a little longer and get some playing time in particularly with the muted baritone. Sleigh bells, indeed.
HRL
Post Edited (2006-12-23 14:25)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-12-23 14:43
Hank, just bring all the stuff along next trip and leave it with me to worry about.
Bob Draznik
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-12-23 15:42
Hank,
you mention that giving your valued instruments to a foundation would not be an option. Why not put them into your own foundation/legacy? Instruments would be lent to aspiring musicians (like a stipendium of some kind) for eg a year for nothing besides the refurbishing cost after that time. Others might toss in their beloved music gear too - nothing is sadder than an instrument that isn't played any more.
I agree with Susan - ultimately it's your call. Are your instruments an investment, or are they to be used and played? In the end it doesn't really matter whether your relatives burn the instruments or sell them and burn the money instead - that's the downside of an investment, it's just money in disguise.
For the time being, tell the Powers In Charge that you need a bit more time to make up your mind. These things need serious thinking and long-term visions.
Keep playing...
--
Ben
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2006-12-23 15:48
Hank:
I think you have brought up the same question many of us have begun to ask as we get older. My clarinets are not real expensive ones but still have a value that might not be appreciated if they became school instruments to be abused. I have 2 pre-letter Selmers (one a full boehme) and some nice intermediates including an Evette Master, Series 10, Leblanc Symphonie, Signet Soloist, & Pourcelle 10-key, all in top playing condition. They are not the real expensive pro horns, but they certainly deserve a better life than that suffered by the Bundys, Vitos, and Conns in the typical school bandroom.
My teacher and I, plus some other teachers and band directors in our community band have talked about this and several of us, including myself, have included instructions for one or two of the others to handle the disposition of our instruments in our will -- I don't think any of us did it in a codicil.
My problem, that I haven't fully resolved yet, is non-clarinet related but still similar. What to do with other stuff much more valuable than all my clarinets together, mostly stuff my GrGrGrandfather (a merchant trader) brough back from the orient back in the mid-1800s (Chinese cinnabar, cloisonne, mud screens, silk brocade, cork carvings, ivory figurines, etc.). I haven't yet found who I want to take care of handling that stuff, though I have begun designating some younger relatives ( that I know will appreciate and properly care for it) to receive a few items.
This whole thing of how to dispose of specialized things that most people don't know anything about can be a real conundrum, Hank, and I too hope that I can find the right answer.
Eu
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-12-23 16:26
I'm not that old yet (49) ; but I have a letter in my file directing my family to give my instruments to specific students.
I have a large private studio, and have directed that my instruments go to 5-6 of my best students in the event of my untimely demise. E.G., to the ones who will probably be continuing with music lifelong.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: susieray
Date: 2006-12-23 16:43
Hank,
Draz is too old, it needs to go to someone like me. I'd take great
care of it.
Sue
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-23 17:06
Hi Everyone,
I have enjoyed the thoughtful ideas (and the extremely sensitive one from my good friend, Draz).
EU, your situation is extremely unique and very similar to the one my Cousin John, the one with the textiles, finds himself in. Paul, if I was still an active woodwind teacher, your idea is truly a wonderful one.
Yes, I'd like to be able to ponder this idea just a little longer.
Thanks everyone. Your wonderful responses are terrific to read.
HRL
Susie Ray, you'll all heart.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2006-12-23 17:47
Hi Hank.
Actually, I've thought about this a little--no definitive answer for MY stuff yet, but I look at it this way:
if the criteria are getting rare and/or hard-won stuff to people who would value it, and KNOW what it was worth; AND getting the best price, I'd say e......er, that internet auction outfit. You know the one. I scan it regularly to see what's out there, and Artie Shaw's stuff was listed there. Also on that website I came across a Selmer low-Eb bass clarinet that had recently belonged to Bob Tricarico (semi-legendary LA studio/scoring woodwind ace) and if I'd been close to having the money, I would have bid for it because of its provenance alone. Thus it would have gone to someone who not only respected what it was, but where it had been.
the other option might be to advertise in the classifieds of the musicians-union paper in your area. that way, you'd have some control over not only price, but "who-gets-it" based on whatever criterion you choose. (e.g., deserving professional, a collector you respect, etc.)
the other option, of course, would be to package it all up and I'll send UPS to pick it up and....believe me, it'll go to someone deserving!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-12-23 18:47
> the other option, of course, would be to package it all up and I'll send UPS
> to pick it up and....believe me, it'll go to someone deserving!
I begin feeling really stoopid not to jump that bandwagon. I realize I'm old-fashioned and have no sense of vulture culture. Then again, that eefer on the second shelf to the right...no. I'll abstain. Must...control...GAS...
--
Ben
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2006-12-23 20:14
Very simple for me. I plan on selling my instruments when I retire. Yep, completly walking away from it all. I don't think that any of my instruments will command much money anyway except for the Mark VI alto sax. Also in my current stable: LeBlanc 1193S; Armstrong 60 Emritus flute; Selmer CT clarinet; Bach 37 Stradevarius trumpet; King Tempo trombone; Buescher 400 alto sax. I've already sold my A clarinet due to lack of sufficient use. I will also be selling all of my repair equipment and supplies.
Then I'll go to my local Honda/Harley dealer and buy a new Goldwing or UltraClassic and tour the country bumming around.
jbutler
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-12-23 22:09
Hopefully I'll be around for a few more years, but one never knows. What I do with my musical instruments depends upon what my grandchildren want to play. One wants to play piano, one is interested in clarinet and the other is 2 and wants whatever everyone else wants. But, if I have one that seems to stick with the clarinet, I'll give her mine when I am no longer able to play. My beloved limited edition Martin guitar will go to my oldest son.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2006-12-23 22:35
Hank,
I'm sending an email your way through the email address you supplied in your info. I hope it gets there!
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-12-23 23:38
Don't give it up too soon, Dr. Hank! I just got back from visiting a good friend, a fine bass clarinetist/baritone saxophonist who just turned 80. He's selling his bari because he hardly plays it any more; but last year he sold his excellent Selmer 33 low-C bass clarinet because he thought he was getting 'too old' to play. Hah! Soon after selling it, he got involved in another community band plus started playing shows, and found he needed a bass clarinet after all -- so he just bought himself a brand-new Selmer Privilege! He's playing as well as ever, too.
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Author: FDF
Date: 2006-12-23 23:45
Dr. Hank,
As an old timer on a different track from you, here are my thoughts. (Read your request early, but waited to respond, and haven’t read the others to insure freshness.)
At age 69 I’ve returned to playing within the past year. I play a vintage Selmer CT purchased in ‘55. The woodwind mouthpiece I once played doesn’t sound so good anymore, due to me. I purchased a new mouthpiece that has a sweet tone that causes others to pause and give me a listen. I wouldn’t part with my Selmer for anything. It’s well crafted, and I’m far from being better than my instrument.
Looking at your picture, I’d say that you have many years left to decide what to do with your clarinets. If you haven’t retired yet, wait a few years after retirement to decide how you’d like to handle them. Your word that stood out for me was “sentimental” value. There is no way you can retain the sentimental value of your instruments by selling them of giving them to someone who doesn’t care. As long as money isn’t an issue, hold on to them. Looks to me that you have many years left to play.
Who knows, you may experiment a little bit with a new mouthpiece as I did, and enjoy playing the old as much as you have your new clarinets. Moreover, after retiring you might find that those old instruments work great for some different music that you decided to play.
Enjoy your luxury of having these wonderful clarinets, and take your time deciding how you’d like to pass them on to someone who’d appreciate having a vintage, well crafted clarinet.
Best to you!
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Author: Snowy
Date: 2006-12-24 00:29
Taking mine with me.
How long does grenadilla take to burn ?
Snowy
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-24 02:58
Hi Everyone,
I have really enjoyed all your responses(and the three marriage proposals that I got by private email). Also very enjoyable have been the somewhat "tongue-in-cheek" but very sensitive missives from many of my BB pals. I somehow expected nothing less.
For the record though, I still play regularly with several different groups each week and can still hold my own with the younger players. But I am a thoughtful planner so...
HRL
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Author: susieray
Date: 2006-12-24 03:22
"Susie Ray, you'll all heart."
Okay, Okay, Hank. I apologize......just give everything to Draz.
..........then he can will them to me. ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2006-12-24 03:29
There is a story in the lastest Clarinet Magazine about a family who decided to put dear old dad's ashes IN a clarinet they found in the closet. So there is another idea for you.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-12-24 03:37
The easiest approach is to simply own nothing of any real value -- that's how I do it, with my automobiles as well as my instruments. Plus, I can avoid all those nasty unwanted marriage proposals that way..........
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2006-12-24 04:05
Three marriage proposals?????? lol. It looks like we have some gold diggers on this site. lol.
So far, I haven't been able to get a boyfriend because of the clarinet. lol... and you get just the reverse!
I'm glad you're still enjoying your clarinets! Keep at it as long as you can!
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Author: Wes
Date: 2006-12-24 07:01
Hi Hank!
You will play for many more years, I'm sure. The following comments seem appropriate:
1. Save certain instruments for grandchildren that may want them. One granddaughter may want a balanced action Selmer alto that I have.
2. Identify dealers who are capable of doing consignment sales with reasonable commissions. My oboe family instruments could go to RDG, for example who used to charge 10% on sales over $1000 and 20% on sales under $1000. They have worldwide sales. I like the gentleman at International Woodwinds in the Local 47 building who charges the same commissions. He could sell saxophones and clarinets. There are several flute dealers with fine reputations, also.
3. The small items such as great mouthpieces could be sold by a relative or a comission agent on ebay. In Los Angeles, the Recycler paper is great for selling musical items.
5. Generally speaking, the big auction houses such as Sothebys or Bonhams are mostly interested in valuable string instruments or rare woodwinds. When I talked to Peter Horner, the violin expert at Bonhams, he had little interest in my family's fine Goetz violin or Didelot bow. I think they may be worth $2500 because they play so good, but he is only interested in names. The auction commission is also quite high so you don't get a lot out of it with lower value instruments.
6. It is common lore here in Los Angeles that when a musician passes on, many people descend on the widow or executor, expressing that "Obie wanted me to have that mouthpiece", etc.
7. Each instrument case should have a durable note giving estimated value at a given year.
Good wishes to you, Hank!
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-24 12:00
Wes, some very great ideas especially #7. And with Susie Ray & Dr. Draz as friends, who needs an Obie.
Carrie, OK it was only two proposals; my mixed meter counting has become flawed.
DS, but I'm expecting you to pick up the sangria (I'll get the paella) when I see you in DC in February.
On a closely related point that has occurred to me after reading Wes Brown's post:
Eric Satterlee who is my really trusted local repair tech is who I could count on to handle any auction items. He is a trustworthy guy besides being a really gifted repair craftsman. I would have no problem leaving instructions in my will for Eric to handle any sales. He is eBay savvy, knows a lot about instruments, could tune up anything before sale, and I have always found his fees fair and very equitable. Next time I'm up at his shop, I'll broach the subject with him.
If you can get to Eric's shop sometime, he has a whole lot of museum quality musical pictures & posters (even in the BR), and many interesting instruments.
HRL
Post Edited (2006-12-24 14:28)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-12-24 12:34
Hank, since I play lots of Balkan folk music, I'd be willing to help you with the mixed-meter counting in exchange for...well, some of your stuff???
:)
Katrina
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2006-12-25 15:52
Hank,
My recommendation is to not be in a hurry.
A local guy here wanted me to get rid of all his (and his late brothers) instruments. We're talking Selmer SBA & mk VI tenor sax, BA alto sax, 2 L Selmer articulated clarinets, Noblet 45, Marton alto sax, misc other clarinets and many mouthpieces.
Now granted, alot of thos are name brands. We got good money for his SBA tenor, but he also had unrealistic expectations for everything else. such as, he wants 1500 for his Noblet 45, which on ebay, used goes for $130ish .. not to mention how much he wanted for his L series clarinets.
He has a tremendous amount of emotional value to his instruments too, which is easily identifiable from the outside but I don't know whether he recognizes it too.
HE can't play anymore (and appreciates it when I show up and play a few things form time to time), but he is easily holding on to his instruments until - I would assume - that emotional price tag wears off a bit.
In other words, Just make sure that you have no emotional value to the instruments any more, and if you can play, make sure you won't play any more. Otherwise just hold on to them. Just looking and holding them may bring back some fond memories which is always worth more than the money from selling them.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-12-26 14:43
<There is a story in the lastest Clarinet Magazine about a family who decided to put dear old dad's ashes IN a clarinet they found in the closet.>
johng, that is absolutely disgusting!
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-08-03 15:45
Hi Everyone,
Almost three years have passed since I started this thread and an update is probably needed.
This past year, I have played more shows, done more concerts, and played in church on a more regular basis. I am surprised since as a septuagenarian, I figured the end was near. LOL.
I believe I am playing very well and the only thing slowing my sight-reading down is the vision. Trifocals can be a pain (but I have single vision computer glasses - 6 pair on eBay for $18 - that seem to work well).
Another issue has been to have to lug a bari sax and/or BC from the car, up or down some crappy stairs to the pit, and then back again. But my wife came up with two great ideas: make more trips and/or occasionally ask one of the younger players or stage hands for a little help. Eureka!
But I got an idea from a guy I play golf with who had a valuable coin collection. I have decided that at 75, I will dispose of the really valuable Mark VIs and Super 80s and buy a couple of Yamaha saxes and bank the excess. No need for backup instruments any longer. Other stuff like vintage MPs, Harrison ligatures, and a few stray vintage clarinets can be disposed of over time.
But my wife is in the loop, has met Eric Satterlee who I talked about in an earlier post, and I am good with all this. A relief now that there is a plan.
HRL
PS But guys like Don Berger and Draz still keep kicking so I could push 75 back to...
Post Edited (2009-08-03 16:44)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-08-03 21:00
Thanks for vote of confidence, Hank. How often I have wished I hadn't sold my VW Karmann-Ghia. You may have a similar mantra if you dispose of those Gems.
Wait until you're 80 or 90 to make a decision cause it sounds like you're having a midlife SDS....Sax DeAcquisition Syndrome
Bob Draznik
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Author: FDF
Date: 2009-08-03 21:33
Yeah, I think BobD has a good point. At any rate, best of luck and life to you. Oh, I'm a youngster, only 72 : )
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2009-08-06 01:05
I understand the reluctance to give good instruments to a school band. Would the same neglect occur if the donation were to a college or university?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-08-06 16:50
I would've suggested to find a university whose teacher or music program you respect, and let them know that you are willing to donate your instruments to them with the caveat that they be given to players who could use them and they would serve well through the college career.
Alexi
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Author: Avie
Date: 2009-08-06 19:28
I would just drop them all off at Bob's and not worry about it.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-08-07 03:07
When my son pries my sticks from my cold, dead hands; he's instructed to pass them along to the clarinet/sax prof at a nearby university.
That way, I hope that the axes will get to someone who will make good use of them. I don't want them put into a public school "loaner library."
Bob Phillips
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