 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-06-25 18:30
An opened mind is a terrible thing to waste. That was the Russianoff way. That’s what made him such a great teacher, because he was always opened mined. Once perfect example was his “bag of mouthpieces”. When he or his students felt it was time to change mouthpieces he would give us his bag of assorted mouthpieces to take home and try. Even when he developed his own “Russianoff” mouthpiece he never pushed it on anyone, you tried it, you both agree it wasn’t for you. It never did become popular and he stopped producing it. When I was doing orchestral coaching with Bernard Portnoy through the National Orchestral Ass. which at that time was a NY based training orchestra. At that time Portnoy came out with his mouthpiece and I choose one to try. Russianoff liked it and I used it for some time, he didn’t at all mind that another teacher in NY was making it and picked it out for me. He was opened minded as he was with all aspects of his teaching. There was not only one way to play the clarinet. He took into consideration the students physical attributes and experimented until the student achieved the best result. If a student could tongue fast and clean with a good tone it didn’t matter to him if their tongue was high, low, short, long whatever. It was always the final result that mattered. In contrast to his opened mind teaching style I know a teacher that has all his students play the same brand mouthpiece because that’s what he uses. When the Marcellus mouthpiece came out many years ago he said to me “finally a mouthpiece that I can have all my students use”. That certainly was not the Russianoff way. After a while he stopped requiring his students to use the Marcellus because it was so inconsistent and his students were not sounding like him. Of course they never have even though he changed his requirement several times as he changed his own mouthpiece. His philosophy is still "you use what I use because that’s the only good mouthpiece". A very closed mind indeed and that’s only one example of a closed minded teacher.
One of the things that made Russianoff such a great teacher is that he was not trying to make them clones which is why so many of his successful students sound like themselves, and they all sound different but good. ESP
http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-06-25 19:35
Not just in clarinet playing in ALL teaching. I believe any student of any kind should be given options, and the freedom to choose within the options, if all options satisfy the end result.
I try to help other, newer clarinet players in my band. If they have questions about adjusting reeds, I show them how I do adjust MY reeds. And maybe it works for them. What I disagree with is when they get told by other players that that's the "wrong" way or they should be adjusting reeds the "right" way.
I think some teachers are trying too hard to create 'clones'. Sort of a variation on "if it's good enough for ______, it's good enough for me". Which works, to an extent. Except you're NOT the person mentioned, so it may NOT be the right way for you. It may be a better choice than what you previously had, but may not be the best. And I guess from the above post, that the latter train of thought is the way Russianoff taught.
Alexi
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2009-06-25 20:25
Indeed.
However, I have one question: How did he teach someone who had a significant technical issue? What kinds of things did he say to "fix" weak tone/tonguing etc. You say he would experiment until things were better, but where did he start? If a sound was fuzzy did he automatically work on "focussing" with a "high tongue" or what???
Admittedly I'm teaching students at a MUCH lower level (5-12 grades US) than he did, but it'd be nice to know what his M.O. was with these difficulties.
EDIT: I find just saying "Make your sound clearer" or "Tongue cleaner" doesn't always fix the problem...my students frequently need more specific instructions.
Curiously,
Katrina
Post Edited (2009-06-25 20:26)
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-06-25 23:09
I have to agree with Greg on what this thread is trying to accomplish.
There have been other threads recently regarding Russianoff's method books and teaching style. I, for one, have a respect for his style of teaching, though I never studied with him. And I look forward to reading the books.
The great teachers each have their own style. Obviously Marcellus and Russianoff were on opposite sides of the spectrum.
But the fact that each as a teacher had great success (as measured by their impact on the American clarinet scene and how many of their respective students are now teaching and playing professionally), is a testament that each style of teaching worked.
In the two years I spent studying with Marcellus, he never once insisted on my playing any particular mouthpiece or even a brand of clarinet. People who came to study with him did so for many reasons, perhaps mostly to capture the sound he was most famous for. And quite frankly, he was able to teach those in his studio how to capture that sound.
I think that with many of the deceased players and teachers, myths (both good and bad) creep into the folklore of clarinet talk.
To categorize the Marcellus teaching style as uncompromisingly dogmatic and inflexible is doing a great disservice to those of us who studied with him and still approach the clarinet and music making with individuality.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2009-06-25 23:47
The only thing Marcellus ever said to me about my mouthpiece at the time I was at NU (Brody was my main teacher, but all grad students got some lessons with him) was about how I pronounced it! He asked what I had, I said "Gigliotti" and he made me repeat it until I had nuanced the Italianate "gl" combo correctly!
I have no other experience with him; I simply would like to know how Russianoff proceeded in his lessons...
And, I'm almost embarrassed to admit, I had no idea there was any sort of rivalry or unseemly behavior.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-06-25 23:52
Ed wrote:
<<In contrast to his opened mind teaching style I know a teacher that has all his students play the same brand mouthpiece because that’s what he uses....... His philosophy is still "you use what I use because that’s the only good mouthpiece".>>
I don't think Ed is referring to Robert Marcellus here, because Mr. Marcellus is deceased and these sentences are in the present tense. I read this as referring to someone who's still alive, but who used to make his students use Marcellus mouthpieces.
I didn't know there was a "rivalry" between Russianoff and Marcellus, though. That's interesting. I wonder what the source of contention was between them. (In that vein, I am curious to know what was different about their teaching/playing philosophies, since in any case there seems to be a consensus of opinion that they were quite different.)
Post Edited (2009-06-26 00:09)
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-06-26 00:05
Not knowing anything about a Marcellus/Russianoff feud, I read Ed Palanker's post as referring to a teacher who WASN'T Marcellus. The tenses seemed wrong for a start (my capitals):
>> I KNOW a teacher that HAS all his students play the same brand mouthpiece because that’s what he uses. When the Marcellus mouthpiece came out many years ago he said to me “finally a mouthpiece that I can have all my students use”. That certainly was not the Russianoff way. After a while he stopped requiring his students to use the Marcellus because it was so inconsistent and his students were not sounding like him. Of course they never have even though he changed his requirement several times as he changed his own mouthpiece. His philosophy IS still "you use what I use because that’s the only good mouthpiece". A very closed mind indeed and that’s only one example of a closed minded teacher.>>
Anyway, it does seem to me that it's very difficult for a teacher to evaluate another's teaching -- one has only hearsay to go on -- unless of course one is talking about a masterclass at which one was present.
Greg has praised Marcellus out of his own direct experience; and I have it on good authority that Russianoff too was an inspiring teacher and a wonderful man. However, whilst I can see that the books contain a deal of useful material, I find several of the explanations in them unhelpful, and am surprised that they are held in quite the high regard that they seem to be on this BBoard.
I may explain that in more detail if I get round to it.
Tony
Post Edited (2009-06-26 00:21)
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2009-06-26 00:16
Well, then apologies all the way around are in order if I misunderstood.
My incorrect reading WOULD BE based on a commonly misunderstood facet of Marcellus' teaching and I may have made the wrong assumption.
Is that the case Ed? If so, I will delete them.
Gregory Smith
Post Edited (2009-06-26 00:20)
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Author: skennedy
Date: 2009-06-26 01:15
This thread might be an opportunity to set the record straight. I sincerely hope the issue is clarified.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-06-26 02:03
In answer to some of the above comments this had nothing to do with Robert Marcellus, or his mouthpiece. I never even heard of a feud between him and Russianoff. As a matter of fact I believe Russianoff had the highest regard for Marcellus. He often praised his and Gennusa's tone quality, not by using their names but by saying the guy in Baltimore and Cleveland. I studied with Russianoff from 59 to 62. Latter I did take several lessons with Marcellus on Russianoff's suggestion. This had nothing to do with Marcellus. It just happened to be that his mouthpiece was the one in question at the time, it could have been any number of MPs but it was his. You noticed I did not name the teacher in question and some of you will certainly guess the wrong one. It was not a matter of who it was but the fact of what was said and done. I never mention a name when saying something negative, never. It doesn't even matter how it is, I could have even made it up to make my point, but I didn't. The only reason I even thought to write this in the first place was because of the threads about the Russianoff books. It just bought back so many great memories and ideas.
In answer to Katrina, you could probably find what he did in some of my articles on my web page. I tried to follow his teaching ideas as much as possible. He would have a student do what he thought was the proper way to do something first, but if it didn't work he would not be stubborn about it and would experiment and investigate different ways to get the student to sound good. If someone could not tongue well because their tongue was to long, or to thick, he would have them try different ways and positions of tonguing until they could sound good instead of insisting that they keep trying to do it the "right way". Joe Allard was the same way when I studied with him. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2009-06-26 02:18
Thanks for the info Ed...That is indeed what I do...suggest "my" way first and if it doesn't work, then I try things until it happens for the kid!
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2009-06-26 02:38
I never studied with Leon Russianoff, but I remember his clarinet-related mail order business in New York. In the days before the Internet (how did we ever manage?), I'd regularly order Oliveri reeds from him. I seem to remember ordering a Korg tuner from him in about 1981, and I purchased it for the sale price of $125! Isn't it amazing how the price of tuners has come down?
In 1984 I visited New York, and I went to his store. He was there, and we had a very pleasant chat.
I remember reading a story about him many years ago, and perhaps someone else can recall more details. A young hotshot went for his first lesson with Russianoff, and thought he'd dazzle him with his rendition of the Neilson concerto. After making it through one page, Russianoff stopped him and set a metronome at a slow tempo. He asked the student to play it again, but this time with correct pitches and rhythms.
I remember my first private teacher, a wonderful man. He had it in his head that his students should play the Woodwind K8 mouthpiece, nothing else. I played on one for a few years and it was a decent mouthpiece, but I wonder if it was really the best mouthpiece for me. A few years later, another teacher had me get a Sumner. It was another nice mouthpiece, but again, I wonder if it was the best mouthpiece for me. When I was in grad school, another teacher told me to get a Vandoren B45. I played it for a few years, but I gave it up because it wasn't really working well for me. For fun I sometimes pull out these old mouthpieces, and I ask myself how I ever played on them.
I agree that there is no single correct way to do things. I think a student should be given a list of good mouthpiece and reed options, and encouraged to find the ones that work best.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-06-26 03:15
I recently received an e-mail asking me about Russianoff's own mouthpiece, if he faced them himself or had someone else do them for him. I answered that I really didn't know I never saw him fiddle around with tools or gauges. Though I tried one and didn't like it, he agreed, I never knew anyone that used one, including Russianoff himself, at least in my senior year. So here's a cute story about that.
At some time in my senior year he asked me to try the mouthpiece he was then using, he just discovered it, it was a Wells #2. I tried it and didn't think much of it so I returned it to him. A few months later one of Herb Blaymans student asked if anyone wanted to try his mouthpiece because he just switched to a Blayman MP. I tried it not realizing what it was and loved it so I bought it. When I showed up at my next lesson with Russianoff I told him I found a great MP, a Wells #2. He looked at me and said, you hated mine a few months ago, it's the same MP. About a month later I dropped my Wells at a dress rehearsal and broke it, I was panicked. The only person I knew that had one was Russianoff so I called him and asked if I could borrow his until I found a new one. I loved it, remember, I hated it several months ago. I used it for a few weeks and he sold it to me. He said you sound great on it and I'll find another. What a guy. Keep in mind, he wasn't playing anyplace then so it wasn't like he gave me the MP he needed to use for his gig. His gig was teaching and running his music store, Banner Music. I do want to add that there are great teachers of every style, it's a matter of finding the one that not only inspires you but also gives you the advise that you need. There have been, and are now, many great teachers out there and many you've never heard of. I just think everyone shouldl keep an opened mind. ESP
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2009-06-26 03:40
I believe a post is in order (with apologies once again for my misunderstanding!) to relate my impressions of Russianoff from the several masterclasses I observed and one that I played in. This was at a couple of different ICA events many years ago.
Leon was a terrific clarinetist, but more than that, he was a terrific, if not a master psychologist. He had an keen understanding of human behavior and applied that to his teaching. No coincidence that he married a well known psychologist.
He knew how to appropriately bolster peoples confidence in themselves by walking *with* them on their journey, whatever it was at the moment. In my experience with him, he had an uncanny sense of what it was like to be me. I felt this w/his standing along side of me while I was playing.
His ability to identify problems and pin them down was more amazing than an anti-missile missile. As an outside observer, one may have had differences with his suggestions, but he had that extra sense that whatever he suggested (always couched in the affirmative), allowed me to be more like myself.
It's hard to explain really.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-06-26 03:45
Some observations....sorry I cant resist.
1) Teachers, especially in early years of a student's development SHOULD be dogmatic. Until a student has matured to the point where he/she can make intelligent musical decisions, they should be doing things the way their teacher says. That's why you study with somone.
2) There were lots of feuds amongst these guys:
Gigliotti vs Russianoff
Gigliotti vs Marcellus
Marcellus vs Gigliotti
Russianoff vs Weber
I have personal stories first and second hand regarding the feuds and they are accurate. But it doesn't change history.
And their students, in some cases, have carried these into the next generation. Hatfields vs McCoys. We American clarinet players should have all moved to Kentucky.
None of them liked each other's mouthpieces. However Marcellus played on a Gigliotti P facing towards the end of his teaching career. I know....hard to believe.
In the end, these clarinetists took teaching seriously and their style was an extension of their personality and ego. Their success as teachers depended to a certain extent to what their students achieved in the real world.
We should be thankful that threads of each style are prevalent in American playing today.
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2009-06-26 13:06
Dileep, I don't think anyone here is saying a teacher should tell his students "do it whatever way you feel like", leaving the student to do whatever he wants with no guidance.
The contrast Ed is talking about is between:
"Do it the way I do it."
versus
"Try it the way I do it. Hm, that's not working for you. Okay, try this. Better, but not good enough... okay, try this. Great! Do it that way."
In the latter case the teacher is NOT leaving the student to make the musical decisions, he is guiding the student to achieve the best result.
Dogmatism -- "Do it this way, period" -- is NOT a good teaching style, no matter what the experience level of the student.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-06-26 14:15
Well put rsholmes!
I studied with Russianoff for three years and I never heard him say a bad word about Weber but I did hear that had a feud, never knew why. The only thing I ever heard him say negative about anyone was he would say, just don't sound like the guy in Philly, never mentioned his name.
David Weber did help me pick out my Eb clarinet even though he knew I studied with Russianoff. He happened to be at Carl Fischer, then the distributor for Buffet, when I was trying out seven Eb clarinets. When I got it down to three he tried them and recommended the one to get, so I guess he didn't hold Russianoff against me.
I'm not sure it was a feud but when I studied with Earl Bates one summer he told me that he should have gotten the Philly job, not Gigliotti, he said something to the degree of being cheated out of that job. ESP
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-06-26 21:28)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-06-26 15:39
My teacher is flexible and has great diagnostic skills. working with him is almost like having a fiddle in my hands --he seems to be able to see through my cheeks and figure out what's going on out of sight.
He helps me use what I've got; and it (seems to) works.
I like that.
Bob Phillips
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