 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2009-03-25 02:37
Hey everyone,
I'm searching for clarinet concertos that were written prior to 1800 (an artificially defined date for the 'end' of the classical period, not set by me) for a competition.
I'm hoping to stay away from Stamitz or Mozart, which seem to be the first that come to mind. Any help is appreciated!
-Nathan
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2009-03-25 03:13
There was an article written by Burnett Tuthill regarding clarinet concerto repertoire. He has a lot of references to pre-1800 concertos. You might check that out. It can be viewed partially online through JSTOR (see below). You'd probably need to go to a university and find the volume of the publishing journal to get the complete list.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3343800
Post Edited (2009-03-25 03:16)
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2009-03-25 03:37
Thanks for the link. I do have access to the full article through my university. I was hoping to get opinions of which of these concertos people have played\heard and like, as many of them are less than satisfying.
-Nathan
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-25 05:52
Nathan wrote:
<<I'm hoping to stay away from Stamitz or Mozart, which seem to be the first that come to mind.>>
By staying away from Stamitz, do you mean staying away from all of the Stamitz concertos or just the one in Bb that is played the most often? Carl Stamitz wrote 11 clarinet concertos and his father Johann wrote one as well. The one you hear most often is No. 3, but some of the other ones are more interesting and challenging.
The Concerto in Eb (sometimes referred to as No. 11) published by Sikorski is quite nice--more challenging than No. 3 and, in my opinion, better music. It's item C587 from Vann Cott (http://www.vcisinc.com/clarinetmusicpiano.htm). Sabine Meyer has recorded this piece. There's also a really fine (but out of print) recording of this piece by Hans-Rudolf Stalder made in the late 1960s (I mentioned this one in another recent thread because it's a personal favorite). If you play it with an orchestra, the 3rd movement features the horn section (playing "horn calls") in addition to the clarinet, which makes it really interesting to listen to.
There's another Concerto in Eb (also sometimes referred to as No. 11, which is why I'm being careful how I describe these) published by Schirmer. It's not a bad piece, either, although the other one is my favorite Stamitz concerto.
If you can get away with playing a concerto written for the little D clarinet, the clarinet concertos of Johann Melchior Molter are among the earliest clarinet concertos written. (They have a reputation for being difficult, though, and since I've never played any of them I don't really know what that means.).
Does the piece have to have been written *for clarinet* prior to 1800? The reason why I ask this is that the Tartini/Jacob Concertino (published by Boosey & Hawkes) was *composed* by Giuseppe Tartini in the 18th century (as movements from various violin sonatas), but transcribed for clarinet and placed in the form of a 4-mvt. concertino in the 20th century by the English composer Gordon Jacob. It's not very difficult, though, so it may not be what you're looking for if you're playing for a contest. I'm not sure.
Post Edited (2009-03-25 06:32)
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-03-25 12:43
Because of the limitations of the clarinet at the time of the Classical era and its relative newness as an instrument, outside of Mozart, the concerti for clarinet in the classical are sorely lacking in musical value and musical content.
The Molter concerti really should be considered Baroque not Classical.
The Stamitz concerti (Karl)are the next best thing to Mozart, and indeed, with his trips to Paris and Mannheim, Mozart may have used these as preliminary models when starting his concerto.
The Concerts Spiritual series in Paris during the late 1700's featured wind instruments as soloists and often featured clarinetists. Several of the Stamitz concerti were written for this series so perhaps there are others that are around in manuscript at the Bibliotech Nationale in Paris.
Remember.....as a wise man once said.....There are few great undiscovered masterpieces. You may want to stick with Mozart.
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2009-03-25 14:02
Dileep Gangolli wrote:
> Because of the limitations of the clarinet at the time of the
> Classical era and its relative newness as an instrument,
> outside of Mozart, the concerti for clarinet in the classical
> are sorely lacking in musical value and musical content.
Exactly my thought. I was hoping that someone happened to know of something interesting in the sea of Stamitz concerti! Looks like it's back to the Mozart. Fortunately, no one has ever heard the Mozart Concerto before =p
-Nathan
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-25 14:05
Dileep Gangolli wrote:
> The Molter concerti really should be considered Baroque not
> Classical.
True. I only suggested those because they're pre-1800, which is how I understood the contest requirements from the previous post. If they really want something actually written in the classical style, Molter's probably out.
> The Stamitz concerti (Karl)are the next best thing to Mozart,
> and indeed, with his trips to Paris and Mannheim, Mozart may
> have used these as preliminary models when starting his
> concerto.
Funny you should mention this. The Stamitz Concerto in Eb published by Schirmer is very similar to the Mozart Concerto in several ways. The first movement's opening theme very closely resembles the opening theme of the Mozart Allegro movement in rhythm, melodic contour, and harmonic content. Stamitz also has the clarinet play an Alberti bass figure over the orchestra, like Mozart does. The third movement is a rondo in 6/8 with a similar opening theme to the Mozart Rondo. We'll probably never know if Mozart ever heard this work, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he did.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2009-03-25 16:01
Would playing an oboe d'amore concerto on the A clarinet be prohibited? Probably. mrn wrote:
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-25 16:48
davyd wrote:
> Would playing an oboe d'amore concerto on the A clarinet be
> prohibited? Probably.
A piece written for chalumeau might be a tougher call, though. Certainly doesn't hurt to ask for rules clarification if you have a good piece in mind.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-03-25 17:52
The concerto by Joseph Eybler (Eulenburg Zurich) scrapes in with the date 1798. It's charming enough in its way; I've played it a couple of times with some success. It ends strangely, because the last movement, complete with bass drum and cymbals, has a lengthy orchestral fugue before the soloist's final word.
You can listen to bits, and even download it, at:
http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=697596
...played by Eddie Brunner.
I didn't buy that recording*, but I do have the recording by Dieter Klocker, which is very free with the solo line (admittedly encouraged by the fact that Eybler himself writes alternative solo lines on two separate staves in the first movement).
Anyway, Klocker just cuts the fugue in the last movement; but I think it's better left in, because -- apart from the fact that Eybler wrote it (and the whole piece apparently probably for Stadler) -- it's quite a good joke:-)
* OK, I just overcame my meanness and downloaded it for UKP7.99:-) Brunner is more athletic than Klocker, whose approach is sweeter and more elegant. The fugue is there in Brunner's effort, though -- which it surely should be.
Tony
Post Edited (2009-03-25 19:22)
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Author: marshall
Date: 2009-03-25 21:39
I'm sure you could get away with one of the Weber concerti. They do tend to err towards a more classical approach to the concerto.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2009-03-26 11:16
Not exactly a "real" clarinet concerto, but there is the Handel Clarinet Concerto that was created when John Barbirolli took some of Handel's music and made a concerto out of it.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2009-03-26 12:51
>>Anyway, Klocker just cuts the fugue in the last movement; but I think it's better left in, because -- apart from the fact that Eybler wrote it (and the whole piece apparently probably for Stadler) -- it's quite a good joke:-)
>>
Did Stadler pay him?
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-03-26 15:35
I'm sitting here wondering when the Crusell concerti were written. Around 1800, I think. At least, he overlapped with Stadler. OH, and Stadler, himself, wrote a bit of clarinetistry.
Please, when you have completed your survey, publish your list. Thank you.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-03-26 16:49
I think a distinction has to be made in terms of what Classical means. If you go by just a date, you are missing the spirit of the Classical era and importance of form and key relationships within movements.
While one can say that the Classical period ended in 1800, that does not mean that everyone composed in the Classical style before and after that date.
Beethoven's early works are classical in nature (Piano Concerto 1, Symphony 1, Op 11 trio) but very early on (soon after 1800) he has migrated to what is now considered Romanticism.
Crussell, Spohr, Weber are all concerti in the Romantic style and as such should not be part of this discussion if we are discussing Classical era clarinet concerti.
The work that Tony mentions by Eybler I am not familiar with so cannot make any opinion on, but if it has extended development sections and extended fugal material, that coupled with the orchestration that includes cymbals and bass drum, would lead me to believe that this concerto leans towards the Romantic aesthetic.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-26 16:55
marshall wrote:
<<I'm sure you could get away with one of the Weber concerti. They do tend to err towards a more classical approach to the concerto.>>
Except that Weber's concertos were all written after 1800 (both they and the concertino were written in 1811 according to Wikipedia). 1800 was the "cutoff date" for this contest.
Post Edited (2009-03-26 19:29)
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