 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jaytaylor
Date: 2008-03-21 22:11
Hey everyone,
I'm a beginner! Only been playing a couple months.
My problem right now is anytime I tongue a clarion note (or altissimo for that matter), I get another tone just a split second before the actual note I'm playing. If I play clarion B, for example, the first split second I can hear chalumeau f#.
Now if I slur from a note in the chalumeau register, and then hit the octave key to play a clarion note, there's no extra tone at the beginning. I can slur all around the clarion register, in fact, and hear no subtone/wolftones, etc. So I'm assuming my tonguing is the problem!
Any suggestions? I'm playing a buffet e11, with a vandoren b45 mouthpiece, and a vandoren 2 1/2 reeds. Just in case you need to know!
Thanks for any help!
Jay
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-03-22 00:31
It sounds to me from your description that you're not keeping your embouchure the same when you tongue as when you slur.
When you tongue, only move the very tip of your tongue and maintain your jaw pressure and lip pressure (all around the mouthpiece, not just top & bottom!). It's hard to put this into words on a page, but let us know if this helps!
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-03-22 04:46
Try using a "lighter" tounge. Think of using a tip to tip action (tip of tounge to the tip of reed). I agree with Katrina, tounging lighter will help keep your embouchure in check.
keep at it!
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Author: BandieSF
Date: 2008-03-22 05:16
From what I remember from way back in sixth grade, just about everyone had problems (only my teacher called them "old-man groans" instead of "wolf tones") like that. Like everyone else has said, use only the very very tip of the tongue.
And some other advice, get in that habit now because it'll come back to bite you later when you get into the area of faster tonguing. I can tell you from experience. No one monitored my tonguing in my first year and I'm now having to pretty much retrain my tongue from square one simply to tongue fast enough to keep up with the rest of the band.
-----
Current set-up:
Classical:
Strength 4 1/4 Legere Signature Series
Vandoren M13 Lyre
Jazz:
Strength 3 3/4 Legere Quebec
Pomarico Jazz*
Clarinets:
Buffet E11 Student Model
Buffet R13 Greenline
<http://operationhighschool.blogspot.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-22 07:54
Make sure you're keeping the breath pressure constant, rather than starting a breath with each note which will make a grunt.
In tongueing, it's only your tongue that should be stopping the airflow into the clarinet, so it's acting like a valve releasing the air which is already up to pressure.
Think of it like a hosepipe that is running, and you can stop the flow of water with your thumb. The water pressure is still there but it's your thumb that's preventing it from flowing. Once you release your thumb the water will begin to flow immediately as the hosepipe is already primed. That's pretty much how you should feel - have a full supply of air from your diaphragm right through to your mouth with only your tongue stopping the airflow.
If you're only pushing the air up from your lungs when you tongue, you can set your vocal cords and epiglottis in motion so you get a grunt with each note. The air pressure is low and the sudden rush causes the grunt. Again with the hosepipe thing - it's as if you're turning the tap on and off to control the water flow, and there's a delay as the pressure has to build up each time as the entire length of the pipe isn't primed, and the resulting flow starts weak and builds up until you turn the tap off and the pressure decreases.
Maintain a constant breath pressure, and your tongue acts as a valve. Even when playing rests (as rests need to be played just as much as the notes do), keep the breath pressure up but stop the reed with your tongue. You may feel air escaping from the sides of your mouth, but this means the air pressure is there.
Don't worry, you won't explode!
Practice playing repeated notes with a rest in between (so that's equal length of notes and rests in between - eg. D_D_D_D_), but keeping the air pressure constant, even through the rests.
And practice until each note starts clean and crisp and finishes cleanly (and is constant for the duration), neither starting too quiet and getting louder (bulging) or starting abruptly and tailing off. So each note is shaped like - - - - rather than < < < < or > > > >. And aim for a good full, round and warm tone each time, not a thin, hard and uncontrolled buzz.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-03-22 12:27
Another way to think about the tonguing: When you pay attention to how you're positioning your tongue, if you spoke aloud, would you be saying, "Nyeh-nyeh-nyeh?" If so, you're probably doing something called anchor tonguing that will slow you down and can also make squeaks and wolf-tones more likely. Instead, try positioning your tongue so that if you had no mouthpiece in your mouth and you were speaking aloud, you'd be saying "Too-too-too" or "Du-du-du." Then you're able to tongue more quickly and with less danger of a squeak or a wolf-tone.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-22 13:24
Also the softer (though just as positive) 'Du-du-du' attack is more desireable than a harsh 'Ta-ta-ta' attack to start a note without abruptness. But that doesn't mean the 'Ta-ta-ta' attack shouldn't be used at all, but use it with care and attention to the sound you're making.
Using too hard a reed will force the player to make a hard attack to get the reed in motion. So choose reeds of the right strength for you which will let you be able to start a note cleanly at low volume levels, maintain the tone throughout and be able to stop the note cleanly as well with neither fuzziness or airyness at the beginning, middle or end.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-03-23 16:21
Well, not exactly, but close. First , you don't want to have a "wolf-tone". It haunts string players and actually exists and can have one change their expensive instrument or have costly repairs, etc.
On the clarinet, it is the case of the air NOT causing the reed to vibrate as soon as the tongue leaves the reed. There must be support behind the tongue,actually a considerable amount of support and getting the reed to vibrate immediately with sound is not immediately forthcoming. This of course occurs more frequently with younger players still experimenting with reed strengths and even more "how to tongue".
Think of a" tracker organ" stop. The mechanism is withdrawn from the pipe allowing the air to rush in and the sound begins immediately or after what we call a "chiff" and with newer organ mechanisms, it does start immediately.
Your tongue must do at least the same and with all clarinetists who have achieved this method, it does.
It takes a while, but have faith and oh yes, practice at least once a week.
play well.
Sherman Friedland
Post Edited (2008-03-23 17:49)
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Author: jaytaylor
Date: 2008-03-23 18:21
Hey everyone!
Thanks for all the advice!
Today's not a usual practice day for me, but I've taken out the clarinet here to try out some of the things you suggested.
I played a clarion g in front of a mirror (well, more from the side), and tried tonguing it over and over. It didn't appear to be my jaw moving, or my embouchure, but it's obviously hard to tell what's going on inside my mouth! It doesn't FEEL like my embouchure's changing.
I don't believe I'm anchor tonguing, since the sensation is more similar to "ta-ta-ta" or "du-du-du" then it is "nyeh-nyeh-nyeh".
Should it tickle the tip of your tongue when tonguing? Or does that mean the reed isn't being completely stopped from vibrating?
I'm supposed to be using the very tip of my tongue to touch the very tip of the reed? Is that right? I think what I've been doing is touching the bottom of the reed, towards the very tip. Although, I've been making sure that I don't actually push the reed up against the mouthpiece.
It seems like if I do a more legato tonguing, there isn't any strange tone at the beginning of the note. It's when I leave my tongue on the reed for a rest, and THEN remove my tongue to play the next note.
You've said to keep the air pressure constant while my tongue is on the reed. Is this supposed to be silent? Because when I try that it sounds as if my tongue is sliding around on the reed or something! Some sort of spit-sound!
I tend to try and practice an hour a day, but that doesn't usually work out since my lips tire before the hour is up.
I'm assuming this is a problem that will go away once my tonguing improves. I'll try the repeated note exercises you recommended. Thanks for the help everyone!
Jay
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