 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-04-21 20:49
At the end of last year, my conductor acknowledged that the following year (this year) will be my last year of high school and he wanted me to play a concerto at the end of the following year (this year) And I agreed. So I've chosen the Finzi Concerto, and so my conductor ordered it and it came 3 weeks ago. This piece, with the 6 flats and 4 sharps and 5 other keys in the first movement (the only one im playing) has proven to be very difficult for most of the orchestra players-- this is because the string orchestra at our school consists of... shall I say... a big palette of players of different skill levels. Mind you, 80~90% of the people don't practice at home... So 2 days ago, I ran it through with them.... No tempo change, No dynamics... The reason for being the lack of tempo change was that even without it, the orchestra wasn't together at all, so the conductor decided rehearse it without them for now... We essentially have ~7 more rehearsals to put it together until the Concert (75 min classes, the conductor will probably dedicate 30 min each class to it) This is my question:
Are we scr*wed or what?
Basically, if we can't put it together in time, the $250 to rent the piece will go to waste, and I'd be really disappointed, and my conductor will be disappointed, and the string orchestra will be glad that they don't have to learn to play in E flat minor...
Post Edited (2007-04-21 20:58)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2007-04-21 21:06
The simple answer is yes.
I did the concerto in Feb with a amature orchestra, we had one rehearsal the week before the first concert, ( i did it twice with them and we did rehearse on the day of the concerts) and was quite an interesting affair. The first concert was ok but the lack of rehearsals showed and the second concert the week later only faired slightly better. They had spent all there time on Elgar's 2nd Symphony.
The string parts are difficult and needs alot of rehearsal time so that intonation and ensemble are correct. The first play through worried me so much that i couldn't do the concerto from memory as planned. I feared that certain ques would be weak in which they were.
Anyhow the review was good and I added the Finzi to my growing list of concerto performances.
Good luck with it all.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D
Date: 2007-04-21 21:25
Well if you are not being examined on it then just go with the flow. Be the best that you can be, and see what you can learn from the experience. One of the most scary things I ever did on a stage (ok it was a nightclub...) was singing without being able to hear the backing at all. Then when they turned it up we were getting it with a slight lag compared to what the audience were hearing. Nightmare!
Watch the conductor like stink and do whatever he indicates. Remember to perform, and make sure the audience are so enraptured watching you, that the orchestra could be playing teddy bears picnic, and no one would notice.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Morrigan
Date: 2007-04-21 21:55
I performed it with a small group of university-level students (as was I) and it went well, however they did say that it is very difficult, and we had to put a LOT of time into it!
Can you call extra rehearsals or something? Do the strings even rehearse without you?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gwie
Date: 2007-04-22 00:14
I'd recommend you get the five principal players (violin 1 and 2, viola, cello, bass) and work through the concerto with them so they can have a better idea of how to lead their sections. They need to play the right rhythms and right notes first!
As for the string sections, If your principals are not capable of coming up with bowings and fingerings that their sections can execute (after all, not all string students can deal with all the different varieties of fingerings and bow strokes used by professional orchestras) then one of their teachers needs to step in and help out, and quickly.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-04-22 02:22
Well said gwie, that is a good idea. Revive the idea of section leaders and break it down from there.
Also, ask and see if you can find any professional string player to step in and give out some pointers. There should be a professional musician somewhere in an orchestra nearby.
ask one of the string players to bring his private teacher for a day or two.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-04-22 05:35
Most of these players dont have private teachers, and they don't practice at home... We have players that are i would call "n00bish"(players that have been playing for less than 2 years) and we have ONE player who is going to Juilliard next year... But most members are mainly somewhere in between... o well, we'll see how things go....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gwie
Date: 2007-04-22 05:52
Ask your director if it is in the budget to hire that one student's teacher to do some intense sectionals for the strings, and provide them with the fingerings and bowings that are within their technical capability to use so that the Finzi can be pulled off.
Wish I could come and help you out, but I'm down here in Southern California and the landslide of May concerts are rolling in for all of my students. :P
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2007-04-22 09:11
ok
even though this is supposed to be played by a big lush sounding string section, for the final few rehearsals and performance do it with a reduced string section- just the best players.
i know this is not ideal, but it will sound better than a big mess
i've wondered about doing this with a "double quartet" + bass.... sometimes musical ideals can be put aside for practicality, though of course it's best to avoid this if possible.
donald
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2007-04-22 10:23
Doing it with reduced strings loses the texture of the work and as the soloist you really need something to 'sit' on. Also the parts divisi quite alot. Just wondered if you had considered any of the other works for clarinet and strings such as, Jacob/Tartini concerto, or Jacobs Mini Concerto. All the best for it and above all enjoy yourself.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-04-22 17:17
ha, 3 weeks from the concert... but 2 weeks of rehearsal left... Kinda late isn't it? lol... O well.... we'll see what we can turn up....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Cat
Date: 2007-04-23 02:34
I'd get copies of recordings for people to listen to - it can help a lot.
And of course, extra rehearsals, sectionals, one-on-one's with the principals could all help.
But if those fail to fix the entire orchestra, it's time for some folks to do what my community concert band director recommends.
"Come concert night, if you can't play this - don't. Just smile and take credit. Don't bring everyone else down with your mistakes."
A lush, FULL orchestra is ideal. If you can get one that's great.
But, in this case, if the orchestra's personnel can't hack it, that's when you cut players and leave only the ones who can play it decently. Or, if you still need some "bulk" in the orchestra's sound, you simplify parts.
Bad intonation, phasing (synch problems), sloppy articulation, missed notes etc, will detract from the performance and overshadow the soloist.
I love, the Finzi - it's my favorite - but it's not the most audience-friendly piece. .
You're already asking your audience to listen to something that's a bit of a stretch. A bunch of mistakes from the orchestra will further diminish your chances of success.
Here's a couple reasons why I think you can get away with a smaller orchestra:
1: Most of the audience is likely NOT familiar with the piece and won't know the difference.
2: The smaller orchestra will allow the clarinet solo to really come through and shine.
I know, I know, it's not musically authentic, but at this point, what's your performance goal? If it's to have the solo be as brilliant as possible, this may be the tough choice to make.
Just my $.02... and I probably owe you change.
__________________________________________________________
I take great pleasure in torturing reeds once they're reached the end of their useful life.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2007-04-23 04:26
Hey Peter, i agree with you, and i'm aware of the doubling too. The difficulty of this work for strings is why i've never tried to do it with the amateur or semi pro orchestra that i get to solo with...
My suggestion was in the context of.... the performance is already planned and rehearsals are underway... music hired etc... how to make the best of a bad situation? i certainly can't imagine that a double quartet playing in tune with good interpretation and ensemble would provide a less satisfying musical experience (for all involved) than the current alternative...
a big horrid mess (at least as i imagine from what wtfPwnage has written)
i certainly won't argue with anyone that this piece would in an ideal situation be performed by a large string group.
donald
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2007-04-23 11:04
Cat, the first movt is not about the soloist as with the second movt it's about the overall sound. Both movts use the clarinet as a colour to material. Granted that there are several moments when the clarinet has the main material like the rhapsodic cadenzas in the 2nd movt. The piece is so interwoven with the strings, similer to the Brahms Quintet. Only the 3rd movt really has brilliant passages for the soloist. What i'm trying to say is that the concerto isn't in the form of soloist and accompaniment, it's much more than that. If you look at his Cello and violin Concertos and compare you'll see, the Clarinet Concerto is special compared to them.
A smaller orchestra is not really practical and if you look at the list of Finzi's Newbury Players it was a big group. When the LSO premiered it the strings were a big section. Everyone should have a go, it will give the strings something to work on, it's not everyday you get to play this beautiful piece in the true English tradition.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: FrankM
Date: 2007-04-23 15:14
This is not an answer to the original post, but I would think selecting music appropriate to the orchestra's abilities is an important part of the conductor's job. If I read your post correctly, it is an amateur group with a wide range of abilities. You may be asking the impossible....or the unreasonable?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-04-23 23:51
I would say "unreasonable given the time"... I had to nag him for ages to get it... Not that my conductor was unwilling, just he is lazy + forgetful (it WAS his idea in the first place....) And no one knew it was that difficult for the strings... But thanks for your insight you guys
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
