 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-01-24 21:25
Circus marches? I can't stand them. One director I play with through the year always includes one or two in every concert. My husband always asks me why he puts them on the program, and I say, "Because he likes them." Then he adds, "I don't think the audience does."
I have to admit I'm more a fan of classical orchestral and classical concert music for band than marches of any kind--but I find these particularly unpleasant. I know they're supposed to be played at an insanely fast pace, and that's usually okay. But the runs can be quite challenging and I find the extra work to play something most of the band hates an annoying task. Not to mention we usually don't sound very good on them.
Ok, I've said my peace. I feel better now.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-01-24 21:35
I kind of like Thunder and Blazes (Entry of the Gladiators). There are lots of dreadful marches -- even by Sousa -- so you need to pick carefully, but this one is, IMHO, great stuff.
When I used to do military funerals, we wondered whether, when a deserter was executed, we should play T&B at dead-march tempo, since that would be where he was going. It's very funny that way -- like Saint-Saens's turtles in Carnival of the Animals doing Offenbach's Can-Can at a turtle pace.
Rest in piece.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-24 21:54
There are pieces I'd never play if I had a say...
Just before Christmas I attended the annual concert of a local wind orchestra, they did Händel, Offenbach, Tchaikovsky, a fine performance, really, and as an encore, "because it's Christmas time", they did a jazzed-up arrangemangled version of Jingle Bells. Arrgh! (The second encore was even worse - a medley. Arrgh again)
I don't mind the odd "popular" tune. I don't even mind Circus marches. If only it weren't always the same three or four... (just like every army band or police corps feels the urge to play "Old Comrades" each time they have a gig).
--
Ben
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-01-24 21:57
In general, I like "circus marches" although I don't know that all circus music consists of marches. If, as a kid, you ever went to the circus you would probably associate the music with the fun. May I suggest that you attend a circus sometime?
Bob Draznik
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Author: Grant
Date: 2007-01-24 23:21
I enjoy circus marches in moderation. I do object to some bands that take military marches at circus tempos. Stars and Stripes at mm180 and the marches in the Holst Suites at mm130 or faster because the baritones were running out of breath at the correct tempo.
I second Bob D.'s suggestion or if you get a chance the big circus parade in Mulwaukee.
I'm also big fan of Bullfight Music even though I wouldn't want to go to one.
Peace on Earth and May You always have a reed that PLAYS.
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2007-01-24 23:48
I also enjoy them in moderation. Our director has been great about picking marches that aren't run-of-the-mill and not scheduling more than one, so they stay intersting. For instance Florentiner instead of Thunder and Blazes. There are some that I still have the bass clarinet part memorized for, 38 years after high school, and haven't played them for 38 years.
One of the problems with these is that many directors seem to think it's a point of honor to play something like Stars and Stripes Forever in 2:50, when the band in the next town can only manage 2:52. That sure takes the fun out! I'd much rather play them right (or hear them played right) at presto moderato than sloppy at multo presto.
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Author: FDF
Date: 2007-01-25 00:00
My preferences are classic and jazz, but my taste is eclectic. I appreciate the marches of Karl King, a master of circus music. King wrote music for average musicians to satisfy an audience and provide the right kind of mood or atmosphere for circus acts, including high wire, animal acts, and clowns. Perhaps knowing the stories behind certain numbers adds to the enjoyment, such as the poignant story of Lilian Leitzel, the popular artist who fell to her death while one of Karl King's numbers for her act was playing. Nonetheless, Karl King was an able musician who inspired many others and he still does to this day. Barnum and Bailey owe him a great deal.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-01-25 00:42
Ken Shaw stated
"When I used to do military funerals, we wondered whether, when a deserter was executed, we should play T&B at dead-march tempo, since that would be where he was going."
Hmmm...was this a common event? I did not know deserters were still executed. Firing squad?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: hans
Date: 2007-01-25 00:49
I agree with Brenda. And if the audience and the band both hate them, that's enough reason not to play them.
Hans
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-01-25 00:55
Count me in, Brenda -- I hate 'em too. Kabalevsky? Blecchhh!! The fast movements of many Prokofiev and Shostakovich symphonies? Circus marches....yuk!
And as a bass clarinetist, there's nothing worse than playing marches in concert bands -- even great marches such as those from Sousa, Karl King, etc. Nothing but oompah for the low reeds.
Post Edited (2007-01-25 15:56)
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-01-25 00:59
I personally don't care for them. Our director has In Storm and Sunshine as our warm up march. Right now we're really struggling to find a fast pace. We went around the class today and he set Dr. Beat at 130 and about 6-7 people could play. What's even more ironic, half of the people who could play it fast AND right were bassline instruments. The thing most for us is that most kids who play clarinet or sax don't know that if they tongue at a different part of the reed, they get a different result :-x Our other two songs kinda ask for a fast tongue but not as fast. My personal favorite is Molly on the Shore but I could really care less about Circus marches. They're not pleasing to listen to if your the audience. I imagine two high school bands just playing them to show off or something, not really to show musicianship.
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Author: William
Date: 2007-01-25 01:42
Although, after a terrible gig "from Hell" (on tenor sax) with Ringling Bros. Barnum and Bailey Circus which caused me to vow that I would never play another circus no matter how big the paycheck, I would rather play any circus march in a band concert than a polka. When I was in high school, I played clarinet with the Saulk County Circus Band (which played for the grand opening of the Circus World Museum in Baraboo, WI) and back then, I loved the technical challenge of playing all those runs at breakaway tempos. Today, my aspirations are much more aesthetically oriented, but I do not mind an occassional circus march to get my fingers going. The Circus Bee and Americans We are two lesser known marches that are fun to play. But Barnum and Baileys Favorite and the Entry of the Gladiators are my favorites. Sorry Brenda, to each his/her own...........:>}
BTW, I have an old record of circus marches done be Fred Fennell and the Eastman Wind Ensemble that is a "gas". If you can find one, give it a listen.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-01-25 04:07
I don't mind circus marches so much as some of the stuff like "Rolling Thunder," which, as I recall begins in 5 flats (concert key), goes to 6 in the trio, and demands continual arpeggiated 16th notes from the woodwinds at some break-neck tempo. I've played velocity exercises that were more musical.
Susan
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Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2007-01-25 04:32
A couple of years back, my band played "The Circus Band" by Charles Ives. Most of the players hated it, but I found it quite delightful and pretty far out. But then again, I like Ives' music, such as "Decoration Day", and his symphonies.
Mike Blinn
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-01-25 14:54
Well, ok. There are some that aren't so bad--the Gladiator one, for instance. But, when it's hard to get everyone together and we don't sound good on it, it's not worth the trouble when people don't like them.
And, by the way, I've been to the circus several times. My oldest son was selected to be in the parade for Ringling Bros. back when he was 6. I don't really want to go back. However, I would go with my granddaughters because I'd go anywhere (almost) that they wanted me to go. But that doesn't have anything to do with my personal playing preferences.
A march or two during concert season is ok. But, we shouldn't overdo them. They're great for outdoor things and patriotic performances.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-01-25 17:06
I fail to see what circus marches have to do with "outdoor things" and patriotic performances but don't desire any explanation.
Bob Draznik
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-01-25 17:27
Circus Marches - they were okay in high school - I recall actually liking the upbeat tempo and such. I wouldn't mind my kids playing them in a (future) band concerts. But for me since college when music performance became serious (except marching band) and nowadays, I would never touch them.
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Author: robertgh
Date: 2007-01-25 19:38
<<BTW, I have an old record of circus marches done be Fred Fennell and the Eastman Wind Ensemble that is a "gas". If you can find one, give it a listen.>>
I have that same Fennell "Screamers" recording on CD; by the fourth track you feel like you're on the worst caffeine buzz of your life. I'm glad I never had to play "Them Basses" and "Bombasto" at anything but parade tempos.
Once, though, we had a circus come to our town and ask our high school band to serve as its band for the two performances in our gym. Got out of classes the whole day for practices. Still remember playing Grand March from Aida over and over and ripping through marches at breakneck speeds that still weren't fast enough to suit our director. The lousy acoustics of the gym covered a multitude of sins. But what a slice of small-town Americana!
Anybody here remember that old US TV show that used to be on in the 50s with somebody's circus? The ringmaster always started the acts by turning to the band and saying, "Mr. Bazille, if you will."
Post Edited (2007-01-25 19:46)
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2007-01-25 19:40
I happen to really like the marches of Karl King, especially The Melody Shop. Fillmore, keep him. Sousa, well there's a few good ones but for the most part, eh. National Emblem, I love that march.
If they're very run of the mill, I usually have a distaste for them but I really like the quick two steps and circus marches; they're usually a challenge and who could back away from that?!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-25 20:17
robertgh wrote:
> Anybody here remember that old US TV show that used to be on in
> the 50s with somebody's circus?
Circus Boy? (With Mickey Dolenz, later to be a "Monkee", in the lead role ...)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-25 20:51
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> Gosh, Mark, you must be old enough to be Don Berger's
> grandpappy!
hey - it was on re-runs in the 60s ...
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Author: robertgh
Date: 2007-01-26 00:47
Hi, Mark
Nope, this wasn't Circus Boy; this ran on the Philly stations on Saturday mornings and featured circus acts. Of course, I was only a little wheezer at the time . . .
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-01-26 01:03
David: Wasn't there a series called "Big Top" that starred the same boy who was in that French Foreign Legion series (forgot the series name)?
Seens like it was on WTTG in your area...later replaced by the local Captain Tugg Show. Eu
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-01-26 03:15
Whoa
Circus Boy....Noah Beery Jr and one of the Corcoran acting family kids
Super Circus....a circus show with Jerry Colona (of the Bob Hope road show movies) as introducer, and variety acts.
Finally....The Philly show mentioned above had Ed McMahon (of Johnny Carson and all those commercials for sweepstakes and life insurance) as host....before he became famous just for existing.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-01-26 10:58
"Super Circus....a circus show with Jerry Colona (of the Bob Hope road show movies) as introducer, and variety acts."
There was also a Super Circus out of Chicago starring Mary Hartline( no, not Mary Hartman,Mary Hartman) .....maybe one and the same.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-01-26 14:49
The one Super Circus I remember was in the 1950s.
I believe it was broadcast from Florida, but I am not certain.
Colona would begin the show: He would roll his eyes (he was known for his funny faces and handlebar moustache) while screaming soooooooper circus....with the sooooooper held for at least 10 seconds.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-01-26 15:26
Showing my age, there was also an early TV program called "The Sealtest Bug Top" which had circus acts. Sealtest was (and probably still is) a maker of ice cream. I'm still imprinted on the Bigga-Shake, the Thicka-Shake and the Big Top Soda.
Alseg -
I was in the West Point Band in 1966-68. We played lots and lots of funerals. The funeral march was always "The Vanished Army (They Never Return)," which was played at a slow "dead march" tempo of about 60.
One way to deal with the trauma of former cadets coming back in boxes (plus wives and young children) was to adopt a detatched cynicism. There were of course no West Point deserters, and an executed deserter would hardly be buried with honors at the West Point Cemetery. It was simply a joke to suggest that we should play "Thunder and Blazes."
Mike -
Ives put words to "Circus Band," making it a wonderful, uproarious recital ender or encore:
All summer long, we boys dreamed `bout big circus joys!
Down Main Street, comes the band,
Oh! "Ain't it a grand and glorious noise!"
Horses are prancing, Knights advancing;
Helmets gleaming Pennants streaming,
Cleopatra's on her throne!
That golden hair is all her own.
Where is the lady all in pink?
Last year she waved to me I think,
Can she have died? Can that rot!
She is passing but she sees me not.
Where is the clown, that funny gink,
Last year he winked at me I think,
Can he have died? Can that rot!
He's still a-winkin' but he sees me not.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-01-26 15:48
Yes....It WAS Sealtest Big Top. They delivered milk to my house.
My first teacher, Paul Ferra, played in the band for the show at some point in time. And, of course, Ed McMahon hosted.
So...no deserters. But where were the survivors buried?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-01-26 16:07
I thought Circus Boy was a movie (with the Cocoran kid) by Walt Disney? But, I vaguely remember a tv program. Yes, it would be the original--not a rerun.
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Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2007-01-26 16:33
Thank you Ken for that information and lyrics to Ives's "Circus Band". Do you know if it was ever recorded by any singer?
Mike Blinn
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Author: robertgh
Date: 2007-01-26 16:54
Alseg is right—
I found this link last night http://www.broadcastpioneers.com/bigtop.html with lots of data on the "Sealtest Big Top" show on WCAU-10. Live TV from the Camden, NJ armory, no less! Also found another site with a treasure trove of circus related history and memorabilia http://www.circushistory.org no audioclips, though.
Got me to thinking, though, that a 100 years ago circus band gigs might have been somewhat akin to being part of a national touring company for a musical (no, this is NOT a setup for a string of musicians-are-animals jokes). There must be a whole history there, kind of a cousin to the Sousa/Goldman era. Also got me wondering if there was a "klezmer" connection to the music played for many of the old circus acts. Maybe Tom Pulwalski knows something about this.
Post Edited (2007-01-26 16:56)
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Author: Dee
Date: 2007-01-29 01:27
Actually I rather like the march "Rolling Thunder".
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2007-01-29 15:28
Don’t forget Don Ameche hosting “International Showtime” in the early 1960s. Lots of circus acts, and marches, in that one.
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Author: ken
Date: 2007-01-29 18:11
Come on; there are oodles of great marches out there. Here's a list of my favs:
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
I recall when accompanying the Officer's Center movement in military parades we'd generally play the Trio to "Americans We". The officers would step out from their squadron formations, turn inward respectively then march and meet together. Next, they'd make left / right faces and march in block formation to the center of the field.
They were god awful but mostly because they'd skip rehearsal and play golf or get hammered at the O'Club. Each new Drum Major the band got I'd always shout from the back row to substitute "Americans We" with the last 32 of "Send in the Clowns". *splash cymbal* v/r Ken
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