 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-02-28 13:59
Nearly all the German-system clarinets I've read about are expensive, custom or semi-custom instruments manufactured in small quantities, often specifically for individual players. Which made me wonder, what do children in Germany play when they're starting to learn clarinet? Somebody must make relatively inexpensive Oehler-system clarinets for beginners......
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-02-28 14:14
You can find the student models, but it's a bit of an ordeal to look for them.
Yamaha makes one, and Amati offers one through outlets like Music 1-2-3. Search on clarinet, German and Amati, and it will pop up.
Both versions have fewer rings, fewer auxiliary keys, and (from the little I've seen of them) poorer levels of fit and finish than do their "professional" counterparts. None of them have a thumb ring, by the way...
I would also imagine that there are "down" lines from the various German manufacturers. However, my limited command of the language (I can still tell you that my girlfriend has "found" a flat tire ['eine Riefenpanner gefinden'], but remember little else from two years of it in high school) ensures that I'm not the one to ask on that.
What you see on the various boards and the on line auction service are invariably Hammerschmitts and the like, all with prices up there in the stratosphere. But, if you watch the German version of a certain internet auction site, you will occasionally see the student models appear. To Boehm sensitive eyes, they all look like someone stripped off half of the keywork, but that's how they're supposed to look.
The "professional" model from Amati retails for about $1,000, again from outlets like Music 1-2-3. I have one (bought at a 10% discount) and it's serviceable enough but still not up to French clarinet standards. Silver plating does not completely make up for a lack of proper tone hole treatment and extremely poor ergonomics.
However, it's a hoot to play. Sort of like an Albert "system" horn on steriods. I'm facile enough on it up through high E, but I'm still not as "quick" as I'd like to be. For some reason that I don't quite understand, it's easier to play it in conjunction with the saxophone than it is to play my Boehm horns. Go figure...
Long ago and far away, I tried to purchase a Yamaha pro horn in the Oehler "system", but I ran into stone walls at every turn. They apparently don't want to sell them over here, no way no how.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-02-28 14:53
The cheapest Amati (242) is less than 500 dollars.
I own its "Boehmian sister" (a 211) and am very happy with it, I have no issues with workmanship or ergonomics.
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Ben
Post Edited (2006-02-28 14:59)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-02-28 15:07
I'm aware of the Amatis and Yamahas, I'm just curious what clarinets the German kids actually use (maybe it's those two brands, I don't know).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-28 15:11
I was wondering the same - it's a bit like oboes really, the cheapest ones are expensive, and you get more gadgets as you go up in price.
The only plastic German system clarinets for beginners are coming from China, and these have up to 22 keys - though I doubt they'll last long.
I know Jupiter do a student wooden-bodied German model, but surely one of the major companies like them or Yamaha, as well as some of the larger German companies could offer an affordable plastic bodied 18 - 20 keyed (all single-piece key castings) clarinet for the beginner market.
Do many people in Germany or Austria begin on Boehm system and change to German or Oehler later on?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-02-28 15:20
Googling German pages, I see (in addition to Yamaha and Amati) only Schreiber and maybe Uebel in the student range. But they're a tad more expensive, probably because of the smaller market (and smaller manufacturing quantities).
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Ben
Post Edited (2006-02-28 15:24)
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-02-28 18:01
Dave:
Strictly speaking, "Oehler" refers only to top-of-the-range models with loads of keys. Students learn on simpler instruments. It is inaccurate to use "Oehler" as a synonym for "German system".
Terry:
"None of them have a thumb ring, by the way..." No, they don't. They don't need one. The purpose of the thumb ring on a Boehm is to allow the thumb to close two holes and hence lower the pitch by two semitones: thumb-off = G, thumb-on = F. On German instruments, thumb-on gives F#.
Chris P:
Germans usually learn on German system, though Boehm clarinets are available for those who prefer them. I suspect the reason for the absence of plastic instruments is pure snobbery.
Yamaha instruments are certainly quite common in Austria - Yamaha even make instruments to an Austrian design, which is subtlely different from the German.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: donald
Date: 2006-02-28 18:11
just yesterday i taught a German exchange student- i can't remember the brand of the clarinet she played, but it wasn't one i'm familiar with (i'll check it out next week). Doesn't Keilworth make student clarinets? Over the years i've seen quite a few "brands" of German Sytem clarinet that were names i hadn't heard of, so i assume that there are a number of smaller makers without wide international recognition. Some of these undoubtedly make lower grade or student instruments with fewer keys etc
donald
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-02-28 18:30
donald asks: "Doesn't Keilworth make student clarinets"
The Keilwerth (not "Keilworth") saxes with which you are likely to be familiar are made by Julius Keilwerth, which is (or more likely was) part of The Music Group.
So far as I know, they don't make clarinets. Keilwerth clarinets are made by Richard Keilwerth. http://www.keilwerth.de/.
Same family, different businesses.
Further info - I don't vouch for its accuracy - at http://www.saxpics.com/Keilwerth/index.htm.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-02-28 18:49
To be precise, Schreiber is affiliated with Julius Keilwerth. This is not surprising, they have been sister companies for many years.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2006-02-28 20:30
I teach a young German student who's in Boston for the next 2 years. His parents wanted him to learn the German system since he's eventually going back to Germany. He has a Schreiber student instrument (wooden). I have to say that his instrument is really quite nice. It's a much more functional instrument than any student Boehm system I've seen and the sound is quite beautiful.
It's an interesting chance to learn the German system so I thought I'd take him on as a student. In any case, his instrument is great, mechanically and sonically.
Best,
Michael
http://www.michaelnorsworthy.com
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-03-01 02:16
Well, I'd also point out that they don't have bridge keys, but am afraid that my comment might be taken the wrong way...
Regarding fit and finish, I'll amplify my remarks a bit.
To begin with, this is a twenty "clapper", six ring horn. It has most of the bells, but few of the whistles of the top end instruments produced by German makers. (In French clarinet terms, it's a fifteen touchpiece, six ring horn.) There are few of the "trillers" that ornament some of the German horns.
The first problem was that the tone hole undercutting on my horn (which is, remember, the "pro" version of the Amati German horn) was not consistent from hole to hole. Nothing that couldn't be worked out with a little fraising here and there, but still not up to Buffet or Selmer standards.
Similarly, little details like the bottoms of the keys are on the rough side, and almost all of the rings (there are five of them) were set WAY too high to allow for sure closure of the finger holes. Not what I would expect on a "pro" level horn.
(This last issue is a major one, as the myriad of "vent" keys on this instrument (three of which are attached directly to three of the rings) can only be regulated by varying the thickness of the pads that they mount. It can be fixed, but it will take time and will present a challenge for many repairmen.)
(One other oddity that I have yet to figure out with the horn is that the right hand middle finger "ring" (which is actually a plateau key) closes no hole, yet it is equipped with its own pad (which does not even seal against the machined fly cutter removed area beneath it. Maybe they had a few extra pads laying about over there in Der Alt Countree...)
A couple of other issues:
• This horn has one of the tackiest logos imprinted on same that I have ever seen. Someone apparently told them to fill up a 3 cm by 3 cm space with as much gold leaf as they could, and it shows. The AK with a crown is on the bell in such a fashion that you'll never mistake this horn for a Selmer. It's also repeated twice more in smaller format, once on the upper joint and once on each of the barrels.
• When I received the horn, it had three loose rings (around the ends of sockets). When taking them in for swedging, I was told (by two different repair folks) that they didn't want to chance damage to the plating. Ultimately, I used Teflon tape (such as one uses during gas and steam fitting to seal up pipe threads) and things were snugged up just fine.
• Finally, there're the ergo issues.
1) For those who haven't played a German or Albert horn, the finger spacing is...well...a bit "funky" compared to a Boehm. Nothing horrid (no bass sax or Conn sax reaches here, folks), but quite different than you're used to. Bear in mind that these horns are based upon "simple" clarinets, and the hole locations are not always where we would like them.
Some will have problems with the spread between LH 2 and 3, particularly if the rings are not brought down by the adjustment mentioned above. Most will have particular problems with the spread between RH 1 and 2, particularly as it affects the placement of RH 3. Amati has helped here with a built in adjustable thumbrest (not the best one in the world, but it did come with the horn), but it took me a good week of experimentation once the rings were set to determine just where that wicked little silver plate on a pillar needed to be located. And, once you realize that the placement of your RH 2 finger pad on its "hole" is not all that critical, you'll feel better.
2) My comment about the missing thumb ring was not so much directed at how the horn works as it was to how this missing item affects the "stability" of the horn in your hand. It feels "funny" in the hands, even moreso than some of the Alberts that I've used in the past.
This was the biggest issue I had with handling the horn, and it took some getting used to. Adding to the problem was the touchpiece that operates the top-mounted register key. It's different than the setting of the same touchpiece on a Boehm horn, and without the stability of the ring structure under your thumb, it is harder to "flick" at the appropriate point in the fingering movement.
3) Then there's the "offset" issue. Put simply, the holes on this instrument when assembled do not line up neatly at top dead center of the instrument. If you assemble it that way (and even then the LH 3 hole is displaced from the "straight line" setup, something like "oo°ooo", if you will), then the reach for the LH little finger to the "long" C# is almost impossible to make in a "smooth" fashion. Instead, the top joint needs to be assembled offset to the bottom one by about 10° "clockwise". This displaces the LH 1 and 2 off of the centerline, puts LH 3 more or less on the centerline, and more or less in line with RH 1, 2, and 3.
As I have always said, it looks weird compared to a Boehm, but what works is what matters in the end.
4) Finally, and perhaps most importantly, many will not find the little finger keywork to their liking.
The LH set of little finger keys are, even when rotated as above, still at a very awkward angle. You work the "traditional" F#/C# to E/B natural "move" (there is also an alternate "patent C#" mechanism) by sliding from one key to another with the finger moving from back to front on the instrument. Both are German-style "bassoon type" 'clapper' keys than have a longer throw than the keys that operate similar notes on the Boehm. There's nothing quite like it on a French horn, and while rollers are fitted to ease the transition, it is out and out different.
The Bb/F natural lever, operated by the LH little finger is also set in both an awkward position and at an awkward reach (when considered in light of the location of the B/E and the C#/F# keys beneath it. If I was having a real work-over done on the horn, I'd have this one extended an eight of an inch minimum, and even then it would still interfere with the two keys below. I find myself using the interconnected "sliver" key (which on this horn is a funny shaped blob, more like a waxing quarter moon) instead of the lever in virtually all cases.
The RH little finger operated Eb/Ab and C/F keys are not optimally located, at least for my admittedly large hands. The C/F lies about right on its own, but the transition to the Eb/Ab is one that requires a "up and in" motion, almost a crooking of the little finger joint. This may be a function of the thumb rest location, but I found that little that I did there made any difference with those two keys. Once again, both are fitted with rollers to ease the movement somewhat, but those used to "fingering" the touch pieces rather than "sliding" will have a new set of skills to acquire.
Don't get me wrong; I really like playing this horn (as I do my Albert instruments). It's closer to the "natural" clarinet that we all lost when the Klose reforms with the Boehm mechanism messed with the older instrument. The bore of the instrument (much narrower than my Selmer Series 9s) makes for a "sweeter", "softer" and less "shrill" tone than any Boehm horn that I've played.
But, it's different in a lot of ways (not just in the stutter/skip that you have to learn with the first fingers of each hand as you run up the scale), and (as delivered) the Amati horn was not up to snuff, operation-wise. (I'm still not happy with the tuning of some of the "mainline" fingerings, but it's not my primary horn so that might just be a reflection of not enough use.)
On the plus side, there are a number of great things about this horn. First, there are no "gurgle" tone holes; all that enter near the lower side of the bore are provided with "chimneys" that set the pad seat well above the condensation flow line. Second, the keywork does a good job of seating on the tone hole seats (once the ring issue is addressed). Third, this instrument has the world's largest G#/C# key touchpiece. You put your little finger down just about anywhere north of the upper joint and you're home free. Fourth, no bell ring. Finally, the overall workmanship on this horn is pretty high when you consider the $1,200 price tag.
You just need to get by the gaudy appearance of the thing (think of the worst appearing Bundy horn and you'll get the idea) and be able to conform to where the keys are located.
One other thing that I just discovered about the horn, or more specifically the case that it comes in. There is a "secret compartment" in the case that I have just noticed for the first time.
I had put a tube of Vandoren cork grease in the case when I bought the horn (it did not come with the supposedly included German mouthpiece (I had one already), the swab (a bit harder to replace) or the cork grease). You need the cork grease as the center joint is a "tight fit" to better stabilize a short tenon at that location.
I get to rehearsal, open up the case and get ready to re-lube the corks and - bam! - no cork grease. I mooched some that evening (Hello Dolly!; lots of fast clarinet work during the Waiter's Dance), and threw in another tube when I got home, figuring that I had just suffered another senior moment.
Tonight, as I am measuring angles and the like, I tip the case a bit to the right on my lap and - plop! - there's the second tube of grease in the "across the top" of the case accessory compartment. What the hell???
It seems that our Czech friends have included a nifty little pocket underneath the space for the obligatory second barrel that is almost always included in German clarinets.
Now what I'm looking for is an Oehler style bass clarinet. Amati ain't any help with that, though...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
Post Edited (2006-03-01 02:26)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-01 10:26
"(One other oddity that I have yet to figure out with the horn is that the right hand middle finger "ring" (which is actually a plateau key) closes no hole, yet it is equipped with its own pad (which does not even seal against the machined fly cutter removed area beneath it. Maybe they had a few extra pads laying about over there in Der Alt Countree...)"
(using the upper register note names in the following)
This fingerplate mechanism (which is Oehler's invention and defines Oehler systems from German systems that have a plain ring and chimney instead) closes both the F hole and the forked F vent (which compensates for RH 3 being closed), but the main reason for it is to put the F tonehole in it's correct place - which is in pretty much the same position as the F key (the one in the equivalent place as the cross B/F# key on Boehms worked with RH 3), so the tonal quality and tuning of both the forked F (xxx|xox) and key F (xxx|xx,o) fingerings should be the same.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-03-01 14:30
I've got no problem understanding the working of the mechanism, which is pretty straightforward when looking at it on the instrument. It works just as you've said, with a couple of adjustment screws thrown in to ease any fine tuning to seal a hole. (Most Boehm instruments rely on bending to do the same thing.)
What I have trouble with is the pad installed beneath the plateau key, which covers no hole (other than the residual centering bit hole from the fly cutter used to machine the clearance area beneath the key), and does not even "seat" on that surface.
Mind you, I've not taken it apart. But I have used a borescope to examine the interior of the horn (a souvenir of my days on M48A3 tanks), and find no penetration covered by the pad, and using a feeler on it reveals that the pad does not "seat" (although it comes pretty close). And, I know enough about machine tools and the like to recognize a fly cutter surface when I see one. (There's a similar cut on my Selmer model 33, this to provide clearance for the RH 3 plateau, and it too has the V-shaped centering hole surrounded by the flat on the surface of the horn.)
As I said, maybe they had a few extra pads laying about the Krasliche works. I do know that I've seen bass clarinet overhauls with pads mistakenly installed on the plateau described one paragraph above, so maybe they were training an apprentice the day that my horn was assembled.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-01 14:45
On my R. Keilwerth Oehler system clarinet the underside of the RH mid fingerplate is completely flat, but I can't really see the reason for the recess cut underneath it into the body as it's a mile off the deck when closed, and the recess resembles a crater - they cut it pretty deep as well.
You wouldn't want that fingerplate to touch the body anyway, even if it's been 'practice padded' as it could cause both the side keys and the F# vent not to close if it did, as well as the typewriter noise each time you put RH 2 down.
Sometimes on cors anglais (LH 3 and RH 1 fingerplates) and flutes (LH 1 touch) some people fill the underside of hollow touches with a cork or felt disc just to look good (not that it's ever seen), but putting a pad in there? Strange!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-03-01 15:23)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-03-01 15:13
Isn't that pad just used to dampen the force if someone presses too much? Maybe if there was "nothing" beneath the plate, too much pressure could bend the adjacent keywork. ???
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-01 15:21
The adjusting screw arm attached to the fingerplate to close the B/F# vent is pretty sturdy considering how thin it is, and the only give is in the pads as they're of the squishy leather variety.
I'm trying this right now, and there's absolutely no bending in the keywork at all.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-03-01 15:29
Chris,
...maybe not in your Keilwerth model. Maybe the Amati has more give (or the adjusting screw is nylon, or ...)
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-01 15:32
The keywork on my Keilwerth is made of pretty hard metal.
I'm trying to see where the LH cross Bb and C keys come into use (Bb - xx'o|ooo, C - x'oo|ooo) - I doubt I'll ever use them (just as on Boehms - I never use the LH cross Bb key xx'o|ooo and have never found any practical use for it) as the RH side keys are more user-friendly.
But the 'Patent C#' mechanism on these and Albert systems, and the perfect B-C# trill it gives is something I envy, and I think anyone else playing Boehms (except for the few playing full Mazzeo systems) does as well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-03-01 15:37)
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-03-01 16:31
Having a full Boehm set of Series 9 horns AND the Amati "Oehler" horn, I can say with some authority that the Boehm arrangement (duplicated keys for RH and LH little fingers) is the superior of the two. My time on Mazzeo horns was quite limited (so I can't venture an opinion there), and I never really worried about the trill all that much, to be perfectly frank.
Aside from the occasional mental confusion that strikes when trying to parse out a LH/RH/LH situation on the "long keys", there's still too much reliance on the sliding on the Oehler for my liking. The "bassoon style" keywork is also "not as precise" as the rod and axle system used by the Klose/Boehm. Once again, I would suspect that tradition has played a role in the retention of something that looks to be less robust and harder to keep in alignment.
Regarding the LH sliver key, used to open a Bb/Eb hole on the upper joint:
The reason that it is there is because it has "always" been there, this being one of the original keys on the old six key clarinet used by Mueller and others back in the classical era. Although other alternatives have come since (on a full Boehm, there are no less than four "solid" ways to produce the notes involved), the natural inertia of makers and players alike has kept the key present if not accounted for.
At least one horn (I think it was the Stubbins-designed "S-K system") eliminated the key as being superfluous. I know that when I play an Eb horn, I always immediately cork and/or wax that little sucker shut, just to avoid the nuisance of brushing it and picking an ultra-high partial by mistake. On the longer sopranos, I will occasional use it but it's not the normal fingering selected, same as with most others I would assume.
And, on the Amati all of the adjusting screws are standard steel setscrews. No Nylon anywhere on horn that I can see.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: k_leister
Date: 2006-03-01 18:17
As I learnt from my German friends, German kids (the real yound kids) start on the C clarinet, which they call Kinderklarinette, or the Eb. Older kids with large enough hands would opt for the 22-key six-ring version of the Bb. This is the simpliest "student model" of Oehler instruement; in fact, it was the professional model in around 1910! The six-ring version does not come with "Oehler-Mechanik", the plate for the right-hand middle finger, and have a less in tune and resonant fork-fingered F. "Tief-E/F Mechanik" is also missing on these models, resulting in an extra-low E and F. All in all, there are student models, and in fact most manufacturers make them, but they have less keys and less in tune.
Most famous German clarinet makers, including Wurlitzer and Uebel, make this entry model but its price would be comparable, if not more than, to a brand new R-13! So, I guess most people would either start with a 2nd-hand instrument or a rental instrument and move on to purchase their own when they get serious about it.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-03-01 18:27
> And, on the Amati all of the adjusting screws are standard steel setscrews.
Hmmm, the throat Ab/A screw on my Amati is cork-tipped.
--
Ben
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-03-01 18:38
It's because that German craftsmanship is worth the extra money, says the Bohemian lad from the Germanic city of Saint Louis MO. You gets what you pays for, m'friend.
By the way, I occasionally see quite bog-standard Boehm instruments (Bundys, even) being bid up to high levels (higher than I would pay, for what that's worth) on the big auction service's German subsidiary. One wonders what that's all about...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-03-01 18:47
Terry,
the big auction prices wouldn't surprise you when you hear that the only "brand plastics" here (.ch) are Yamahas and greenline Buffets...
I am currently wrestling with my shop to quote the price for a plastic "C" Amati - the first official answer was "withdrawn from marketing" until I contacted Amati directly (they're very friendly and responsive, btw) who told me otherwise.
Different markets, different price structures...
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-01 19:53
Hold fire with the Amati C clarinet - the Forte C clarinet will be on the market soon.
I asked a German colleague how people in Germany go about learning clarinet, considering the cost of an 'entry level' instrument is pretty much the same price as a student oboe (in a word - expensive) - she mentioned (as mentioned earlier) they can learn on a basic C clarinet that a lot of companies make, or rent an 18-22 keyed instrument from the schools.
She did say Boehm system clarinets are easier to get around on technically, but that's depending on point of view - if you've started out on German system or Boehm I don't see that either of them have the upper hand - some things are much easier to get around on German system and the same can be said for Boehm system, depending what you're used to playing.
I was told never to get used the extra gadgets on my almost-full Boehm Centered Tone clarinets - for fear that one day I might not have them and will have to use a standard Boehm. Even told by a music shop that if I play a full Boehm I could never go back to playing a standard Boehm.
There's only a tiny bit of truth there - I will miss the extra gadgets, but I'll just have to get used to doing without the LH Eb, forked Eb, articulated G# and low Eb - it might be an inconvenience to begin with, but it's hardly a serious problem as the basic fingerings are the same - not like changing from German to Boehm just like that with no time to get used to te different system.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-03-01 20:31)
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Author: joannew
Date: 2006-03-01 20:29
>The reason that it is there is because it has "always" been there, this being one of the original keys on the old six key clarinet used by Mueller and others back in the classical era.
Is that the case for German horns? The 6th key was the LH C#/G# on French instruments and a long RH1 side key on English instruments. The sliver keys on the upper & lower joints were added next, so are found on 8 key & later clarinets.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-03-01 20:33
> the Forte C clarinet
How would I get it fixed under warranty when the shipping alone is costing me 40ish dollars every time? (this is a generic question, not Forté related).
There's little point buying the best gear ever if it - de facto - isn't covered by an enforceable warranty.
--
Ben
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-03-01 21:38
Regarding the adjustment screws, on my Amati "top end" German horn, there is no adjustment screw for the A/Ab key combination. Intonation wise, I'm not 100% certain that the Ab hole has to be opened to properly vent the A when it is tripped. But, there's no connection between those two keys at all.
As for the "full Boehm" option, you can have my articulated G# keys when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers. Luckily, I'm at the point in my life where a new clarinet can come from just about any source that I choose (but not from Hammerschmidt or Uebel, mind you). So, if my current set leaves for Splitsville, I can ante up enough to obtain new ones without too much pain.
As for the "facility" that one has on a German/Albert horn versus a Klose/Boehm one, I have to fall on the side of the Boehm. I base that opinion on the following reasoning:
To begin with, the way that Klose arranged it, you can run your fingers up the instrument "without an exception", as we used to say in RG programming. The base scale of the instrument (F to F) is obtained by lifting one finger after another, without any splits or flopping about. Unfortunately, you can't do that on a German horn, as you have to pull off a "trick" with both first fingers, synchronizing movement of a second key in order to run the F scale.
(In that, the German system reminds me of the saxophone (oh tool of Satan), with the peculiar C/C# LH 1 and 2 arrangement that just seems down and out wrong. I've never seen the reasoning for this, and every book on Sax that I've consulted is silent on same; they're more worried about listing Bird's accomplishments instead.)
Klose also did a better job of laying out the key movement (cf my comments on the LH little finger keys noted above). I've only handled two or three other German clarinets, but all did not have the same "flat keyboard" arrangement as did the Boehm keywork. Moving in one horizontal plane from key to key and then depressing the key is better, in my opinion, than moving your finger up and down and then pressing sideways.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-02 06:43
I think the future for me will be reform Boehms if I ever decide to move up in the world, or win the jackpot (though I'm completely happy where I am in life and with full Boehms) - this rules out the need for an articulated G# key in that the F#-G# trill can be done just by fingering the F# (xxx|oxo) and trilling with LH 3.
At some point when I become more adept at using these new fangled computer thingies, I'll post some photos of the forked Eb mechanism and LH Eb keys I've built and fitted to my plastic Yamaha YCL-24 (my Frankenstein's monster clarinet - any keywork ideas I get will be tried out on this first) - it seems I'm finding the forked Eb too useful a device to pass up. Now, if only I'd fitted one of these on my Eb clarinet before I had it all silverplated!
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Author: donald
Date: 2006-03-02 07:51
btw Terry
to go from C# to B on a D-system clarinet you don't need to slide your left hand little finger- if you put the E/B key down without putting the right hand F/C key down, you should get a C#. (in the lower reg this might also work for F# to low E, depending on how the instrument vents and how it has been tuned)
Using this fingering, you can go from C# to B much more smoothly than on the Boehm system clarinet, and Emaj and Bmaj can be smoothly played with ease.
donald
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-03-02 14:24
There continue to be efforts to add some of the venting mechanisms found on the German horns to the French style instruments, but they are sporadic and seldom "take" in the French world. The Recital model by Selmer did this with venting on the lower joint, but the measure of success can be had by just how many Recital horns you see these days.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-02 14:40
I've just been playing my Keilwerth Oehler system using the stock Keilwerth mouthpiece that came with it - then I picked up my Series 9 full Boehm - the Selmer felt very strange - almost as if I've never played one before, and to be honest I didn't like the tone I was making when I went back to it.
And having accustomed myself to playing Oehler system for an hour or so I was tripping up all over the shop when I was back on my full Boehm!
I know some Oehler systems have five side keys on the top joint - most have four, but they don't have the throat A-Bb trill key as Boehms which is a shame as this trill has to be made with the speaker key - maybe the ones with five keys do.
I'll bung this link on here for convenience:
http://www.cs.ru.nl/~bolke/DuitseKlar/oehlerlistOld.html
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-03-02 15:08)
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The Clarinet Pages
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