 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jo.clarinet
Date: 2004-03-28 08:53
This query was sparked by one of the replies on another thread, which mentions Grade 10. In England we don't have such a thing, and it got me wondering how the different countries compare in their exam grading systems. I'd be interested to hear more!
In the UK there are several different exam boards, but all the reputable ones follow the same basic format of Grades 1 to 8, following which there are a number of different diplomas and professional qualifications that one can take in performing, teaching, directing etc. So Grade 8 is our top level before going on to more specialised study.
This is completely separate from the music programmes in the universities, although of course one can take performing diplomas and so on while studying at university as well.
What happens in other countries?
Joanna Brown
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Author: Melissa
Date: 2004-03-28 14:57
In Canada most people use the Royal conservatory of music. The grades go from 1-10 and then the final "grade" is the ARCT which is your diploma. I don't have the clarinet syllabus at the moment but I do know the Mozart concerto is grade 10 while the rose studies book 1 is grade 8 and book 2 is grade 9.
Melissa
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-03-28 17:04
I think it´s kind of odd to hear that in canada the mozart´s concerto is "just" grade 10. In my country you can definitely play it in your diploma. It´s just so hard to play well! You have to play every single note with really good concentration.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-03-28 18:36
In England you can play either the first or last movement of the Mozart concerto as one of your set pieces for grade 8. The slow movement isn't a set piece, or not routinely so, but if it were it would be maybe grade 4 or 5. Various movements from the Brahms sonatas cover these same grades.
None of this means that the Mozart is easy to play really well. It just means that it is not so very difficult technically. Passing grade 8 doesn't mean that you play like a professional, nor even like a graduate. It means that you are making good progress as a learner: you can play the notes, reasonably well in tune, with some sense of style. New entrants to a conservatoire will have grade 8, often in two instruments, often passed with distinction.
My wife passed grade 8 piano with distinction when she was 17. This meant she was a competent amateur pianist, probably good enough to train to be a piano teacher if she had wanted to. It was an achievement to be proud of, but it certainly didn't mean she played like a professional, nor that she was some sort of prodigy.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Melissa
Date: 2004-03-28 20:43
In Canada the 2nd movement of Mozart is grade 8 I believe but the 1st and 3rd are grade 10. Sorry I didn't specify that before.
Melissa
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-28 21:02
Quote:
None of this means that the Mozart is easy to play really well. It just means that it is not so very difficult technically. Passing grade 8 doesn't mean that you play like a professional, nor even like a graduate. It means that you are making good progress as a learner: you can play the notes, reasonably well in tune, with some sense of style. New entrants to a conservatoire will have grade 8, often in two instruments, often passed with distinction.
"I think he's got it! I think he's got it! By George he's got it! By George he's got it!"
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-03-28 21:53
Here in Australia we have our own system nationally ... the AMEB and some of the capital city conservatories have their own set of graded examinations, too.
From my point of view they are a waste of time (sitting the exams) but they certainly are a good way of establishing (roughly) the standards of core repertoire. I've seen too many teachers teach to the syllabus ... it makes me wonder why they bother teacher as it shows absolutely no imagination.
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-03-29 04:32
I know that the mozart´s concerto is not so difficult technically, but I think that it should actually measure your understanding of music. I think It´s the ultimate test measuring how well you understand music. And I mean the whole thing! Not just the technical handling. So that is why I think the mozart´s concerto should be the highest difficulty level. I mean that you should play this piece after you know for sure that you will be a professional. I think then you get the best result for it.
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2004-03-29 17:16
Diz, The Conservatory Method has its pros and cons. Although it doesn't promote much imagination and discourages creativity, the benefit is that it forces one to raise the level of musicianship in most areas all at the same time. While a self-taught person might be able to play music, the sightreading, ear training, and scales, let alone music theory and history, could be sorely deficient. Now that I'm not aiming for an exam in the near future, I'm working on filling in the gaps that the exam didn't allow time for, like the Baermann III exercises. I think that an insightful teacher could encourage creativity and warn the student to just not show it off during the exam - then they'd be a more complete musician.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-30 13:27
Quote:
While a self-taught person might be able to play music, the sightreading, ear training, and scales, let alone music theory and history, could be sorely deficient. That pretty much describes me to a "T". Except the part about being able to play music . . . ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) Quote:
I think that an insightful teacher could encourage creativity and warn the student to just not show it off during the exam - then they'd be a more complete musician. Well, sometimes it's good to show off during an exam. Especially on those pieces that encourage and practically BEG for some ceativity (operatic pieces for one). To play these pieces straightforward and machinelike wouldn't seem to do the music much justice. But the teacher can certainly help you determine how much is TOO much.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-03-30 21:14
Brenda ... I'd like to see the Conservatory Syllabus ... is it available online?
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2004-03-30 21:17
Maybe where you come from, but here I get written comments like: "it's too slow" or "it's too fast", from music where I've listened to the CD and marked the tempo in my music - and this from a trombonist or a flutist who demonstrates during the exam that they don't know the clarinet repertoire - they don't ask for the stuff that a clarinetist would beg to hear played because they know it's tough. Interpretation shouldn't be a part of the grading, but there you go. Maybe the RCM examiners are too conservative. That's why I'd prefer to leave the attitude at home during an exam.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-27 17:52
When I started clarinet my teacher ran through some pieces - he thought Grade 3 was probably too easy so he put me in for Grade 4 - and I surprised myself as I got a distinction for that.
After that he said skip Grade 5 and do Grade 6 instead (where the LH Ab/Eb came in handy for the 2nd movement of the Saint-Saens sonata), but I was a bit cocky and didn't put the effort in this time and only got a merit (115/150), but the year after I did Grade 8 and got distinction (135/150) which was a complete surprise - I did the Rondo from Weber Concerto No.1 (and made good use of the forked Eb here), Stanford 3 Intermezzi and Pierre-Max Dubois Sonata Breve (1st mvmt.) - though it was probably a week before the exam when I finally decided to do this as a study, as I thought it was the best study in the list - and got the highest mark for this piece out of the others (I was expecting the Weber to be the highest.
I did bend the rules a bit (as well as risk disqualification) and take photocopies of the Pierre-Max Dubois into the exam - reason being that I sold my copy of the 'Sonata Breve' to another student as I did another movement of this for Grade 6, and was going to do a different study for Grade 8 (but didn't like the others on the syllabus) and couldn't get a replacement copy in time, but the ARBSM do allow photocopies as long as they're destroyed afterwards, but a valid reason for using a photocopy is if there's an awkward page turn, which the 'Sonata Breve' has. I did let the examiner know beforehand that I was using a photocopy, and put it face up in the staffroom bin so the chances are she'd have seen it during her lunch break.
Kinda got knackered up when it came to do the Advanced Certificate as I couldn't get funding, and the disappointment also resulted in me putting my clarinets back in their case and leaving them there for pretty much the next 15 years. But not to worry, I'm taking it seriously again.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-12-28 00:03)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-12-27 22:00
The US doesn't have a standard, national grading system. Almost all music instruction on clarinet is done through school music programs. That which isn't is usually because the student wants to improve or their parents tell them they need private lessons.
There are music schools (like MacPhail in Minneapolis) which offer classes in theory and history for all ages, but it's not a general part of "band" instruction here...
GBK may have more to say on the NY state competitions he judges...
Katrina
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-12-27 23:21
Most states (USA) have their own grading system. They are usually on a 5, 6 or 7 level system.
The New York State School Music Association (NYSSMA) ranks all music for their competitions on a level from one to six, with level six being the most difficult. All categories (vocal, band, ensembles, and individual instruments) are ranked accordingly.
The graded list of solos, is revised every three years.
Students must have original copies of the music. Photocopies are strictly forbidden and will disqualify the student. Most students on the elementary level simply give the judges the unused piano accompaniment part to read from, while they play the solo part. Pieces which are written as unaccompanied or those which use a pianist to accompany, do require the student to purchase and provide an original solo part for the judge, as well.
Now for my personal comments:
I am a NYSSMA judge and feel that the adjudication and scoring in New York can be greatly improved. Over the past few decades the NYSSMA Solo and Ensemble Festival has become less and less manageable and much more like a factory experience.
Each year tens of thousands of students play their prepared solo, scales and do sight reading in front of NYSSMA judges during a 3 month period at various weekend (and recently mid-week) locations throughout the state. NYSSMA is under enormous pressure to find enough certified judges for the influx of students. Since there often are not enough judges to go around, they frequently are forced to hire non-certified temporary judges to fill in the gaps of coverage.
The scoring, in my opinion, on the advanced level has become very inflated. Students routinely are given 6A or 6A+ scores on performances which are less than stellar. Judges are always reminded to keep within a strict 15 minute time frame, but the evaluations are often rushed, with judges seemingly spending more time filling out the evaluation form rather than actually critically listening to the solo. However, even with the built in time constraints, judging still gets backlogged, with many judges running one or two hours behind the posted schedule. I have heard many students giving sloppy, careless performances on technical solos, only to be given superior scores due to the many fast passages. I often wonder if the judge was actually even carefully listening to the solo or just trying to finish filling out the form.
The grading of the solo literature is inconsistant and arbitrary. The Weber and Brahms works, for example, have been moved up and down in the manual between Level 5 and 6 without rhyme or reason. Some major pieces of the repertoire disappear for years on end while other works of much less quality have been staples of the NYSSMA catalogue for decades.
On the Elementary level, it seems that EVERY student, no matter how well or poorly prepared is sent to NYSSMA competition by their school music teacher, thus clogging the entire system. Pity the poor judge who must sit through the SAME Grade 1 clarinet solo played by 10 straight elementary students, all from the same school (and all making the same errors). Judges are instructed to encourage the youngest participants (a good thing) but by not fairly critiquing the poorer players is not truthful to the student, parent or school district.
School music teachers take careful note: Sending all 60 of your first year instrumentalists to the NYSSMA Solo Competition just to impress your principal is wrong and is putting an unmanageable strain on the entire NYSSMA system. NYSSMA should be for the students who work hard, not for inflating one's own ego.
The good news - school music in New York is growing, with more students than ever before playing instruments.
The bad news - mediocrity is the norm. Fewer and fewer outstanding students are emerging. The number of students studying privately (in even the bigger school districts) often can be counted on one hand.
NYSSMA as a good role model for a US grading system? Not at the present time ...GBK
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Author: bawa
Date: 2005-12-28 09:25
Here in Spain, music education via municipal music schools and Conservatories but there is no national grading system as such.
Music schools cater for beginners (children and adults) and people who want to study an instrument or music as a hobby, no exams, no age limit. They are run by the local councils. Conservatories (Middle Grade ) are fewer and offer the secondary school equivalent of musical education.
This is "official" i.e. students skip their normal music class, and any optional subject they have in school (whichever one they go to): these are replaced by the grades they have in the conservatory.
The syllabus in the conservatory includes main instrument, secondary instrument (= piano, obligatory for all wind and string players), theory (depending on year...theory, analysis, rhythms, intonation, harmonics, music history, composition), chamber music and orchestra. This translates into about 6 hours of classes a week AFTER school.
The exams are run by the conservatories and seem to be pretty independent. There are two other clarinet in my daughter's year, but they all are doing different studies/works according to ability. The structure of the exam is the same i.e. scales, arpeggios, study + work, but the actual content is according to each student: I think the teacher has a list of the works and studies etc that he thinks are essential for All students, but how fast they get through it is different for each student.
Each teacher may have his own syllabus, e.g. there are four violin teachers but they each have their own "repertory" for their students, which is very loose and varied. Exams are marked by a team of teachers and the school director.
After this, at 18, the bad part is there is no music at University level, only the Conservatories Superiores, very hard to get into and maximum of one (if at all) for each region. So it is all performance based, even though most will end up teaching music as well.
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