 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Lee
Date: 2005-09-08 15:44
I am having problems learning to play complicated measures in pieces written in 3/8 counting them in 1 beat per measure & two beats per measure (6/8 Time). I play them first counting three beats or six beats and then try them in one or two beats. Have tried running the metronome for each beat, but still tapping foot in one beat per measure. Typical 3/8 measures that I find difficulet are a 1/16 rest followed by 3 -1/16 notes followed by an 1/8 note , next measure 1/16 rest, 1/16 note, 1/16 rest, 1/16note,1/16 rest,1/16 note (Rubanks Advanced Clarinet Method Volume 1, pages 32,33,35). I am working with a teacher and have been working on this in particular for a few weeks.
I would appreciate any tips. Thanks
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Author: Kel
Date: 2005-09-08 16:18
One-and-two-and-three-and (four-and-five-and-six-and). Even if you're only tapping on one (and four), keep track of the other beats in your head.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-09-08 16:28
You might just need a break, David. That's up to you and your teacher, of course. If it were me, however, I'd leave it alone for a while, play two-beat pieces, come back to the "two-threes" later.
You may be working too hard trying to get it perfect. Relaxed, fun playing can often do wonders toward making hard, tricky-rhythm passages easier.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-09-08 17:07
Don't think it is complicated and you are already half way through.
We have a saying : it's as simple as one two three, well it is !!!
You only have to convince yourself.
Kel has right, but don't 'count' to much, try feeling it.
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2005-09-08 17:28
for me, 6/8 are "1-2-3, 4-5-6" per measure and on, and on. And if you count really fast, it becomes "1, 2", hence feels like 2 beat per measure.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-08 18:13
Think of Limericks - they're in 6/8.
And a lot of Folk songs are in 6/8 as well, but don't count the subdivisions of each beat, just the main beats.
I must admit that I have trouble with 2/4 and cut common (C with a vertical line throuh it or 2/2) - I can end up counting in 4, especially when there's tied notes for several bars or several bars rest, then come in early or late or not at all.
And then there's 6/4 which can throw me as well, a lot of renaissance music seems to be in 6/4, and the cor anglais solo in Wagner's 'Flying Dutchman' overture.
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2005-09-08 19:00
How do you count 6/4, I dont' come across it often.
Is it "1-2-3-4-5-6" , "1-2-3-4-5-6" , "1-2-3-4-5-6" ?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-08 19:10
I wish I knew! I'm trying to think of the 'Flying Dutchman' cor/oboe duet - but that's fairly slow (even so I still can't manage).
The Galliards(?) of the renaissance era are in 6/4, but they are fast so they're still two beats to the bar feel.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-09-08 19:36
I think 6/4 is "1-2-3-4-5-6" except when the conductor decides to conduct it as 3/2.
But then you get a conductor (like the guest/college student conductor did at last night's rehearsal) who says he's going to conduct certain 6/4 bars as 3/2, but then subdivides the 3/2 so we can see the quarter notes. Are the conducting strokes different between 6/4 and subdivided 3/2? It gets confusing, but of course knowing the tempo or approximate tempo, especially if it continues from the previous measure, helps in knowing what is being conducted.
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-09-08 19:41
6/4, 5/4, 7/8, 7/4 (even once had 4,5/ 4 - yes 'four and a half over 4 in a Charles Ives trio), is all a matter of the music.
Try to find the musical 'line' and then it will become clear where the accents are and how to conduct/play.
They can even differ bar after bar in some modern music.
Remember music notation is only a way of trying to write down music, it isn't the music itself,
Peter
6/4 van be 4/4 + 2/4 or 2/4 + 4/4 or just yep ... 6/4
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Author: Kel
Date: 2005-09-08 20:01
Then there's the popular Dave Brubeck piece in 9/8 (I can hear the melody in my head but can't remember the name).
Two bars of 1-2, 1-2, 1-2, 1-2-3, followed by one bar of 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3.
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-09-08 20:07
And what about 'Unsquared dance' ? I thing it's even stranger, somekind of 4/4 but then written in 7/8 so 1 beat 'square' is missing ?
But You probably mean 'Blue Rondo a la turk'
Post Edited (2005-09-08 20:09)
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Author: bflatclarinetist
Date: 2005-09-08 20:08
I figured this out myself, it really helps if you take the music and if you can, figure out the beats on the music with a pencil (lightly). It might also help while you're playing to slightly emphasize the first eighth note of the beat.
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2005-09-08 20:13
aaaaah! That's why I prefer to know the music (being able to hum it) before attempting to read and play it. I try to find a recording of it whenever possible.
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-09-08 20:13
It can even help if you put some symbols above the notes.
It is difficult to explain, but I'll try;
If you have e.g. a 8/8 that has to be played as : 3/8, 3/8, 2/8, you can put 2 triangles and a straight line above the notes, then you really see :
1,2,3, 1,2,3 1,2
great little trick I've learned after 30 year of playing music, never too old to learn !!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-08 20:53
There are some bars in Walton's 'Portsmouth Point' that are divided as (in 4/4, but counting quavers/8th notes) 123,12,123.
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Author: Kel
Date: 2005-09-08 23:02
Ah, yes. At the end of Unsquare Dance the drummer laughs in relief. They left the laugh in the recording.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-09-08 23:07
6/4 is by default the same as 6/8, only half as fast. It is often conducted subdivided, as 6/8 sometimes is. In some contexts, 6/4 is conducted as a 3/2 (some composers may prefer to keep everything in /4 to show beat steadiness). It might also be notated as 4+2, etc., but in that case it's more common to see a bar of 4/4 followed by a bar of 2/4. If the music doesn't specify or suggest otherwise, though, 6/4 is two sets of three, just like 6/8, 6/16, 6/32, 6/2, etc.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-09-08 23:09
Kel --
...Brubeck -- are you remembering:
"Take Five" ?
- ron b -
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Author: Kel
Date: 2005-09-08 23:31
Sorry, I wasn't clear in my last post. As BelgianClarinet said, Blue Rondo A La Turk is the 9/8 piece. Unsquare Dance, as mentioned by BelgianClarinet, is maybe the most diabolical rhythm every concocted. It is 7/4. Brubeck promised his original quartet that once they got the ending right they would never have to play it again.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-09-08 23:39
Oh. okay, I got it...
... (sigh)... never have to play it again - hahaahaha - i've longed many a time to hear those words. never happened :|
- r b -
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