 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-06-14 07:04
Hi
I'm starting my minature home studio. It won't be real professional, but I hope to record live insruments like woodwinds and strings, and also make electronic music and music for films using Cubase.
I already have good microphones and I'm building my computer this week (it's half way built).
What I need now is an audio card, mixer and speakers.
For the sound card, I'm leaning towards the M-Audio Audiophile 192. It has balanced I/O and MIDI too. The Delta-44 seems good but doesn't have MIDI.
I thought of one of these mixers:
Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro - $485
Yamaha MG 12/4 - $280
Behringer EuroRack UB1204 Pro - $235
There are not the exact prices but should be close enough. I read a lot that Behringer is overall not a very good mixer, but it might be enough for my use. Many places say both the Yamaha and Mackie are good, with a slight edge to the Mackie. By the price it should be much better.... What is recommended?
I don't want to get special studio monitors. I won't be making any professional mixing and mastering so all I need is good speakers for under $200.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks very much.
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-06-14 09:10
take a look at www.motu.com ... they sell hardware that might be useful. (no, I don't work for them).
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-06-14 12:38
The Mackie has superior mic preamps so you would be well advised to go that route (the Behringers sound god-awful in absolutely every respect. I bought one for doing location monitoring for my portable rig and returned it the same day). You may also consider an alternative in Mackie's small Onyx mixer, which is available with a firewire interface. You would get the same mixing and preamp capabilities, but could dispense with the M-Audio interface. MIDI interfaces are extremely cheap so you could buy that separately.
If you aren't going to invest in decent powered studio monitors, be VERY careful if you are going to jack your computer into your stereo. For starters, there might be grounding issues if they are on different taps, and second, you could absolutely cook your stereo. "Pro" audio equipment runs at a hotter signal level. Synthesizers in particular can be very hard on consumer stereo equipment. You might consider a good pair of headphones (Sennheiser, AKG, Grado, Beyer) instead of monitors. You will get much closer to high quality sound reproduction for a fraction of the cost, and the Mackie mixers have exceedingly good headphone preamps for the money.
Feel free to email me directly if you have any questions. There are a lot of challenges I didn't cover in trying to record live instruments, particularly strings, in a home studio environment.
Have fun!
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-06-14 13:37
I got a Mackie Spike interface....it doubles as a sound card, provides 2 mic
inputs which provide phantom power for cond. mics if needed, and it links to monitors, headphones.
It attaches to the PC via a USB.
The big problem I face is how to place mics. and which mics do the job best for recording piano and clar. Some suggest close micing, others space for room ambience. Still experimenting.
Comments by the more knowlegleable members would be greatly appreciated.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-06-14 17:01
I've had historically bad luck finding out about sound cards, and I don't know much about the M-Audio. If you intend to travel with part of your studio, you might look into a USB audio interface such as the MBox, or the one Alseq suggested, or something else entirely. If you ever end up taking a laptop and a couple mikes somewhere, it's quite nice to be able to bring the good audio interface along as well.
I quite like the Behringer mixers and have been delighted with my EuroRack UB1622FX. The FX are nothing to speak of, it has features I don't use, and the extra channels probably aren't that necessary, but I quite like the separation between Main and Sub that this model and above feature. With this, each input can be routed to Main, Sub, neither or both. It's very convenient when you want to send some things to the monitors and other things back into the computer simultaneously, and you can set the volume levels appropriately as well.
For monitors, I'm happy with my Roland MA-8.
I assume that you have the software situation under control?
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-06-14 17:39
Micing clarinet and piano is quite the challenge. The piano can easily overwhelm the clarinet for starters, and the sound dispersion field of the two instruments is completely different. I have found that a pair of spaced large-diaphragm omnis (Neumann U87s for instace) coupled with a spot mic on the clarinet (tube cardioid or a ribbon like the Royer or RCA) allows you to get the full sound of both instruments while being able to bring up the clarinet carefully. For a concert instrument like a Steinway D, I've found you have to get at least 6 to 8 feet away from the instrument for the sound to fully integrate and develop.
For recording David Hattner, I did something a little different than that on stage at Town Hall. We flew AKG 451s with omni capsules wide out on the front apron of the stage, and put two close omnis (large diaphragm) on David, who was sitting in the crotch of the piano with it open full-stick. If I had it to do again, I think I might have used a directional mic so I could back up the mic and get the sound of the horn without as much mechanical noise.
Unless you have good acoustic processing software to impose an ambient space on the recording, close mics really don't work for classical. Even with the software, the presentation can still be a little too clinical. The piano wasn't designed for the audience to sit with their face under the lid, and the clarinet certainly isn't as attractive at 6 inches as it is at 6 feet.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-06-14 17:48
Hooo boy.....some fancy mics there, but the end result is nice (I heard the samples) .
Any mic suggestions for 2 mics, say in the range of 299USD each for a setup in a fairly lively (hardwood floor, drywall ) room 20x15 ft with a Steinway B (grand but not concert size)?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-06-14 21:05
RODE probably -- NT4 (X/Y crossed cardioid capsules on the same mount), NT5 (pair of NT4 capsules in separate bodies), or the NT1000. If you were willing to swing a little harder, I'd recommend the AKG C451-B. They street in the $450 range each, but worth it. They do a great job with piano and with clarinet, which seems to fit the bill for your application. Your Steinway B deserves it!
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-06-15 01:52
<<<<Your Steinway B deserves it!>>>>
Thanks...and the pianist (Mrs. S.) deserves it, too, as does the Baermann Adagio.
Besides, I have to get myself a gift for her birthday and anniversary ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-06-15 02:27
Rode is nice. I'm using the NT1A (about $200 each), which was recommended to me as a great multipurpose mic, as it wasn't my intention to keep on clarinet-only stuff. I imagine the models msloss recommends would work great.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-06-15 03:10
Dr. S, I like your thinking. May I borrow that tactic to use with my wife? Our anniversary is Saturday, and I think she'd look lovely in a pair of Schoeps CCM4s.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-06-15 04:22
How did that yucky folk song go?.....ah yes:
Scarlet ribbon (microphones) for her hair...
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-06-15 04:29
Thanks a lot for the answers.
I'm leaning towards the Yamaha mixer. Eventhough the Mackie probably sounds a little better, it is much more expensive. Yamaha is overall a pretty good and reliable company. Does anyone have experience with the Yamaha mixer?
The Onyx is $930 so that's not even an option...
Msloss I will email you about the speakers, and since I will probably need help with making everything work, espeically with connecting all the cables.
Thanks.
Post Edited (2005-06-15 13:20)
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Author: LeeB
Date: 2005-06-15 18:58
I imagine this discussion is really off-topic for this forum. Before a moderator pulls the plug, I'd suggest to you that there are many excellent forums specifically dedicated to building and equipping recording studios (and you'd get kicked off them if you showed up and started discussing clarinets).
Here are three of my favorites...
http://gearslutz.com/board/
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/
http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
All three of the above forums are extremely deep, and could keep you occupied for weeks. Use the search function to research the specific gear you're considering.
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