 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wjk
Date: 2005-05-01 13:52
The process of acquiring a Wurlitzer seems very time consuming and expensive---has anyone on the bulletin board done this? Also, what alternatives makers are more available in the USA--? Amati? Yamaha?
Do they make "reform Boehm" instruments? What mouthpiece/ligature/reed/combinations have others tried with these instruments? Is it worth all the time and expense?
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-05-01 17:28
I looked for a quality German system clarinet for thirty years, and rapidly learned that money was the first obstacle, followed closely by availability. eBay isn't much help here, as most of what appears thereon is either the stratospheric level (your Hammerschmitts and the like) or the primitive entry level horns made by Yamaha and others.
While there are "non-German" alternatives, one (Yamaha) doesn't seem to available at all to those outside of Germany. All of my inquiries to the piano and motorcycle making giant went completely unanswered, including two in the form of certified mail.
There is one "reasonable" alternative that you can have in your hands within a month. For just about $1,000 US, you can own your very own "Oehler" system clarinet from the folks at Amati. I bought one through the Music 123 folks (very lightly used, with the only "flaw" being that the original mouthpiece (complete with string grooves) was not included) for $899 plus shipping, and am totally satisfied with the horn save only for the gaudy and prominent fake gold Amati logo that is plastered on the upper joint, barrel and bell.
For those not used to anything other that the world of the Boehm/Klose clarinet, it will certainly feel different.
For example, with my primary music type being pop these days, I have been playing on Van Dorn 2 1/2 reeds for several years. Playing the same style of music on the Amati puts me in the 3 1/2 strength (also on Van Dorns), but I could probably go as high as 4 without any problems.
The fingering system takes some getting used to (particularly in quick chromatic passages), as your first fingers on both hands perform different functions when they are lifted on the Amati. There's no thumb ring, just a flush condensation tube, and this in particular seems to bother many who have tried the horn.
Then there's that whole little finger thing. One of the major improvements of the Boehm/Klose is that facility "over the break" is aided by the provision of those alternative keys for E/B, F/C and F#/C# (and, on some horns, Ab/Eb). Put simply, it ain't that simple on a German horn (or on the "other" French horn, the "Albert" system).
For those used to "left-right-left" with gay abandon, playing the Amati is sheer hell. On this horn, you've got your right hand little finger Ab/Eb and F/C. Then you've got your right hand little finger F/B and F#/C#. For those who are used to the Albert or saxophone, or who are ham handed like me and have trouble operating the Boehm right hand C#, this arrangement is restrictive but not prohibitive in its function. To those who worked through all of the exercises in Boehm based methods, this will require some major rethinking when approaching "difficult" passages.
There are some accommodations that the Germans have made over the years. Little finger keys are fitted with rollers (I think that clarinet rollers predate those on the bassoon and sax, but I could be wrong here), just like on many high end Albert horns, and they do help the sliding movements that are necessary in many passages. There's also the alternative F#/C# mechanism that gives E when little finger L hits the E key while little finger R holds down the F key, and C# when the little finger R is lifted. It's hard to get used to on short acquaintance, but it is quite useful once you get the hang of it.
Finger "spacing" is (for the want of a better term) "funky" on both Oehler and Albert horns. You'll find yourself putting fingers down slightly off target as your Boehm trained hands try to make the switch. The same is true to a somewhat lesser extent for many of the keys that are located in more or less "in the same place". And then there's the left hand little finger...
On the Amati, the C#/G# key is more or less the same. However, there's a big difference with the three other keys. Let's take them one at a time.
The real alien to most will be the Bb/F lever, located above the other two in the same fashion that a Ab/Eb lever on a upscale Boehm instrument. This offers an alternative to the x/xxx/xx (B key) fingering, where the B key operated by the right ring finger. This B lever key itself is a bit of a stretch for most hands, by the way, being set farther down the joint than is your typical auxiliary Eb lever.
The other two keys are (from the player's view down the horn, left to right) the F# and the E keys. (And, from here on out, let's dispense with the double nomenclature for the sake of my fingers and ligaments.)
The F# key is set very, very low on the side of the instrument, so low that the flat plateau touchpiece is set at a 75° angle to the plane of the six "fingerholes" on the top of the horn. In effect, the flat surface of the touchpiece faces almost to the left (when viewed from the player's perspective.
The adjacent E key is at the same angle, but since it is located about 1/2 inch "higher" in relative terms, it is less of a fingering problem. In effect, this "locational" issue forces the learner to avoid the F# with the left hand and to rely on the "patent" feature involving both little fingers. A forced learning technique, if you will.
One thing that many folks miss is that this is a horn that is designed to be put together with the finger holes "not in line". I've found that it works best with the upper joint rotated about (eyeballing the assembled horn here) some 15° counter-clockwise from the bottom joint. This puts all three left hand little finger touchpieces within comfortable reach, as well as helping with some finger angle issues on the right hand "fingerholes".
For the rest, the clarinet is much better set up with regards to venting notes. There are no less than five keys that are there for intonation and venting purposes. Problems with low F are a thing of the past with this instrument. And, there are no less than six adjustment screws; for situations where the Boehm/Klose require the bending of a keycup arm, the Amati player can often get by with a minor adjustment screw twist. And, for those who hate it with a passion, there's no crowsfoot on this instrument.
(One little oddity: there is no adjustment screw for the A/G# key combination. What's more, the operation of the A key does not automatically open the G# key. (The A key does automatically shut the small vent pad attached to the first finger ring, LH.) I've not noted in any fingering chart why this should be this way, but I'm sure that there's a very good reason.)
But, with the good comes some bad. All those extra venting keys mean extra attachment points, and three of them are attached to three of the clarinet's rings. What this means is that ring height adjustment (a big issue with big handed people) is much more complicated, as you have to change pad heights when you bring a ring closer to the top of the chimney. After a year and three trips to my repair guy, I'm still not 100% satisfied with my first and second finger LH tone holes. He's going to try shifting to oboe pads (these particular keys take really small pads (one is only about 5/16" across) to see if we can squeeze a bit more of the ring height.
Oh, and no bridge between the joints, either. No bell ring (good riddance, if you ask me), and the world's largest C#/G# key touchpiece (it measures 1 1/2" by a half inch across; you can't miss this one in a hurry no matter what you do).
Tone and "feel" are...well..."different" from your current ride. Yesterday, I was forced (by virtue of the fact of being the only one there with a soprano clarinet) into playing the Goodman part on "Sing, Sing, Sing (Part I)". With the flexibility that you need to bring that piece of "ornamental notework" off, I'd not choose my Amati horn to play it. I've used it on the occasional dance gig, and it is very "clarinet like" and suitable for a lot of music. But, not for screaming.
The "additional back pressure" that I feel with the Amati is welcomed when playing classical stuff. As I don't do much classical any more, I've taken to using the horn when I play musicals as well, just to keep my hand in.
If you've got the money (once again, somewhere in the neighborhood of a grand), you might want to consider trying one. In the "blind" testing that I've done (and it is limited exclusively to comments from people who have heard but not seen me play solo passages in musical theater), I've received a number of "Gee, that sure sounded sweet!" comments that I didn't used to get under similar circumstances.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
Post Edited (2005-05-01 17:38)
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Author: thomas.b
Date: 2005-05-01 17:45
of course there are alternatives to Wurlitzer. If you are looking for a very high quality instrument there are for example:
-Dietz: http://www.dietz-klarinetten.de/
-Leitner und Kraus: http://www.leitner-kraus.de/
-Schwenk und Seggelke: http://www.schwenk-und-seggelke.de/
-Hueyng:http://www.schwenk-und-seggelke.de/http://www.hueyng.de/
Yamaha offers in Germany very high quality German clarinets as well as German Boehm
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Author: ned
Date: 2005-05-02 03:46
"" save only for the gaudy and prominent fake gold Amati logo that is plastered on the upper joint, barrel and bell""
I don't think any manufacturer uses real gold for logo imprinting, do they?
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Author: ned
Date: 2005-05-02 03:55
""One thing that many folks miss is that this is a horn that is designed to be put together with the finger holes "not in line". I've found that it works best with the upper joint rotated about (eyeballing the assembled horn here) some 15° counter-clockwise from the bottom joint. This puts all three left hand little finger touchpieces within comfortable reach, as well as helping with some finger angle issues on the right hand "fingerholes".""
Good point - I have been rotating the two joints on my various Albert system instruments for many years, and it can be done to any degree desirable as there is no articulating lever between them to worry about.
I tried a friend's Boehm recently and found that the almost total lack of rotation available made for discomfort and inaccuracy in placement of the fingers. I was checking out the Boehm in the wild hope that I could convince myself to switch systems (and invest in a full Boehm perhaps) so that I could better play in Ab & Db (concert).
I don't think I will though - it would just be too difficult after all the years using an Albert.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-05-02 15:41
Before you commit to buying a German style instrument, find an old "Albert" system instrument to play for a week or two. I don't have any particular trouble with the fingerings, since I also pay recorder and some oboe, which have similar systems. What I did have trouble with was the wide stretchs in the right hand. The German instruments have a pad beween the right index and middle finger holes, and more distance between the other holes and keys. I couldn't get used to it and almost immediately a lot of pain in my right hand.
If I wanted to play a German-style instrument, I'd get a Reform Boehm, with a German bore and Boehm fingering.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-05-02 16:47
I agree that the finger spacing issues will be a big "pain" for most used to the Boehm layout. It's not impossible to bridge the difference, but those with big hands will have better luck than those without.
I don't play Albert very often any more. (I started on it on a bass clarinet, by the way...) I've got a middlen old Buffet from the late 1800's, but in the more extreme keys it can be bothersome with the left hand.
On the other hand, since I make limited use of the RH F#/C# on the Boehm (due to finger and hand size issues), I don't have too much trouble with the limited little finger uses. And, the "patent C#" mechanism used on high end Albert and Oehler style horns could stand a transfer to the Boehm as well (if it could be made to work).
Also, that middle finger pad on the Oehler style horns isn't really a pad at all, but rather a plateau touchpiece for that finger that opens other keys not directly below it. At first I thought it a tone hole until told otherwise hereon, and when I got the light and the tiny mirror to take a look, I was amazed to find that there was a pad under the touchpiece, but that there was no hole under the pad! Those crazy Czechs...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2005-05-03 18:32
Hands aside it seems to me the Dutch Reform Schmidt is the very best for any serious Boehm clarinet player. I really think the German system presents a serious obstacle in terms of price. Also, the Reform Bohm is made at 440 as well and can be used in the same setting without the noticable intonation differences the Wurlitzer german system will have in an American playing environment. I have played and previously owned a Reform Bohm Schmidt and found it much nicer than the German Oehlers that I have tried.
On top of this I found reeds far easier to adapt to the Reform system over the way the German/Austrian clarinets I have tried...these are
Koltkan Clarinets
Wurlitzer Clarinets
and
Keilwerth Clarinets...
I have a preference personally for the Dutch Reform sound so that should bear in mind as well. The pitch is a bit more flexibile on the Boehm reform system over the Oehler as well. The Oelher I also find speak slowly in the throat register too!
David Dow
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2005-05-04 03:31
I don't think wjk is looking for a German system/ style clarinet as just a good quality german-made clarinet like Wurlitzer? Reformed Boehm is very similar to normal Boehm. hehe I would love a Wurlitzer myself.
--CG
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