 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-04-29 18:20
While totally refraing from discussing politics on this site, but taking an objective view of things, if there is tariff hike of 30 per cent on musical instruments produced in my country -France- and exported to the US, this would normally mean that Americans will have to pay 30 per cent more for the purchase of an instrument. The economic situation of Selmer and Lorée is already precarious. I'm not sure they could survive a considerable loss in US sales (Lorée exports 80 per cent of their oboes to the US). As for Chinese manufacturers, their prices would logically double.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2025-04-29 19:59
Ruben,
The cost of the tariffs will be higher prices for the dealer and thus the customer unless Conn-Selmer wants to absorb. There will be no checks from China, France, etc. to the US Government as Mr. Trump has claimed.
IMHO This is collateral damage resulting from a poorly planned and executed
trade war. A flawed plan from the beginning.
Hank
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Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2025-04-29 20:12
The theory is that tariffs will be added to the cost of the product, thereby will slow demand for goods imported and encourage manufacturing in the U.S.
I only say theory because there are some people who will pay any price for something if they want it bad enough.
Are there enough of those people? Maybe not.
Most student-level instruments are made in China and the U.S. In the instrument world, we are certainly conditioned on what to believe based on manufacturing origin - whether it's true or not.
Clarinets have been increasing in price for a long time. The highest priced one I can think of is the Backun Carbon Fiber for about $15,000 each. Competition amongst high school and college students continue to help drive prices higher to have 'the best one' and any additional edge they perceive these instruments to have.
Kind of like the cost of college keeps increasing due to academic overhead.
I think used instruments should be a far better bargain, but those may increase over time as well? Similarly to the used car market? Not sure if a $250 used clarinet will suddenly jump up in price to $500 though.
The private equity firm that bought Buffet Crampon really picked a bad time in terms of the market in the United States. However, they are the #1 brand for clarinets... so who knows?
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Vandoren BD5 HD 13-series mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren #4 Blue-box reeds
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2025-04-29 21:16
Would a brand new clarinet bought by someone visiting the UK or Europe and sold via a private seller still be considered a new clarinet or would it effectively be a used clarinet? I'm sure there are some loopholes waiting to be exploited to bypass the tariffs.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2025-04-29 21:50
I don't think US import tarriffs and customs duties differentiate between new and used. It is just based in value of the imported goods.
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2025-04-29 21:58
also when it comes to new instruments the tax is applied to the value of the instrument when it crosses the border, which is not necessarily the final sale price. I have heard that often companies must sell product at 3X their own purchase cost to break even. Following that example, a $3000 clarinet sold in the US might only cost the distributor $1000 to import it, and the tarrif only applies to the $1000 amount. So a 30% tariff may only increase the final cost by around $300 on a $3000 instrument.
Where this will really be felt is on low profit margin goods since there is little price hike after import to absorb the tarriff and all the cost must be passed to the consumer.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-04-29 22:27
You asked for an apolitical answer.
Who is charged a tax (and a tariff is no different than a tax except it is charged to a foreign entity rather than someone making a purchase domestically) and who pays it can vary based upon something economists call the price elasticity of a product, which is how sensitive its demand is to price changes.
In reality, often both parties to a transaction pay a portion of the tax/tariff.
For products that have easy substitutes, and where their demand is flexible, more of that tax is paid by the seller. Where a product is mission critical, and has few things that can replace it, the seller can pass along a large part, if not all of its tax/tariff to the buyer.
Here's another apolitical fact. The more goods are exchanged of each party's free will the happier we are as a society. This is known as the gains from trade, and it stems from the fact that we value things differently: if we didn't we wouldn't trade. That can of Coke you got charge $1 for, you bought because you perceived its value as being greater than $1, just as sure as its seller considered it worth less than $1 in value: everyone benefits and benefits increase the more such transactions occur.
Taxes or tariffs reduce the amount that can be traded, a bad thing, and are only justified when the taxes collected fund things that are considered more worthy (which can be subjective) than the loss in trade, be it social services, less people smoking cigarettes, road repairs, etc.
Economists the world over tend to agree that there are a few areas, for limited times, in which tariffs can be beneficial. Otherwise, they tend to at best, protect niche industries at detriment to the masses.
Taxes and tariffs reveal who truly has power in an economic situation.
Post Edited (2025-04-30 00:20)
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2025-04-29 23:04
Recent post (2 weeks ago) from an small woodwind shop owner in the USA:
"As a business owner, I just got hit with my first tariff charge on an imported instrument from the EU. While I thought it would be 10%, it was actually 4.9% (normal import duty) and then an additional 10% on top of that. A single clarinet just got increased in price by $500.
In order to receive the instrument from the shipper I had to pay this or they would not deliver the instrument . For small businesses, this will quickly become unsustainable as the retailers have to pay the costs up front and then make decisions on what percentage is passed on to customers."
Besides this, I believe that the dollar has also dropped against the Euro?
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-04-29 23:55
Chris P: the UK is not supposed to be as badly hit as the EU: 10 per cent as opposed to 30 per cent...God knows why. But who makes clarinets in the UK since Howarth stopped making them? Howarth oboes, on the other hand, will have an advantage over Lorée, Marigaux and Rigoutat.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
Post Edited (2025-04-30 00:20)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2025-04-30 00:06
"But who makes clarinets in the EU since Howarth stopped making them?"
Buffet and Selmer to name two.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-04-30 00:19
Chris: I . meant: who makes clarinets in the UK?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-04-30 12:31
PS: Our British friends have already experienced tariff increases due to Brexit. The proposed American hikes will be far more drastic. It's not because Buffets and Selmers, etc. became more expensive in Britain that this boosted local production in the UK. This argument of raising import tariffs in order to produce local production doesn't seem to hold water.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2025-04-30 14:18
Peter Eaton has said he will produce 50 more pairs of clarinets in the UK but I don't know how this is proceeding.
In the 'old days' I used to buy some clarinets in Paris, pay the French taxes and VAT in the UK and then claim back the French tax on my return. In that way I had a much wider choice of instruments although, in those days, the French technicians used to laugh at my B&H 1010 clarinets.
I still have a bass bought in that way but I don't know if I would be able to source A=440 instruments in Paris these days.
Brexit and US Tariffs are both a plague on normal life, in my opinion. My wife and I have been buying certain items now in case prices increase in the near future.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-04-30 17:50
Symphony 1010 Selmer and Buffet both claim that their longer barrels enable you to play at A-440, but I find that even with the longer barrels, we're up to A-442, unless you're playing in an ice-cold church. Another dire consequence of Brexit that affects the performing arts: the administrative difficulties of employing British musicians and ensembles on the continent. The Aix-en-Provence summer festival used to employ the great London Symphony Orchestra. They don't anymore; too complicated, I've been told.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2025-04-30 18:03
ruben wrote:
> Symphony 1010 Selmer and Buffet both claim that their longer
> barrels enable you to play at A-440, but I find that even with
> the longer barrels, we're up to A-442, unless you're playing
> in an ice-cold church. Another dire consequence of Brexit that
> affects the performing arts: the administrative difficulties
> of employing British musicians and ensembles on the continent.
> The Aix-en-Provence summer festival used to employ the great
> London Symphony Orchestra. They don't anymore; too
> complicated, I've been told.
>
Yes, I've always had instruments at 440 and used a 65 barrel on the A with the 66 on the Bb as is common practice. It just works.
We would move to France if we could. I used some of the time during Covid to acquire Irish citizenship as I found out that my grandfather had been born there. Alas, my wife doesn't have that possibility.
We have both worked extensively in partnership with twinned towns in Normandie that have music conservatoires but that was some time ago. As you rightly say, partnership working has become very difficult now.
As of now we max out our time in various parts of France whenever we can!
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-04-30 20:02
1010: look me up sometime!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2025-05-04 10:45
"...if there is tariff hike of 30 per cent on musical instruments..."
...and...if that tariff remains for any meaningful time...
I believe the effect will hardly be noticeable. Instruments (by in large) are really more of a luxury item. The person who believes Buf is the best will save a little longer and still buy Buf. Perhaps Buf will lose the student market for a while, but given enough time - they'll gain those students back as the parents adjust and plan.
I see the non-luxury items being impacted more. The US isn't going to jump in and start manufacturing Buf-quality clarinets anytime soon. However, they very well might ramp up and onshore consumer items, and strengthen already-existing industries. (That's if the economy could hold out.)
Just my opinion.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
[edit]Added my signature
Post Edited (2025-05-04 10:46)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-05-04 13:08
Fuzzy: Time will tell and we will find out soon enough. What I do know is that for some companies: Lorée, Selmer, some German piano makers,..even a ten percent drop in sales could put them out of business.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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