 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-08-26 19:53
While it's not a clarinet, I just watched this video of the Nuvo J Horn which is a tenor horn/baritone style instrument which has a set of slides so it can be tuned to either Bb or C. https://youtu.be/72lArSytRgY?si=8_9wW8I3TPYm4uJo&t=244
The reviewer seems to have an issue with brass instruments built in the key of C and thinks it's limiting the player to only be able to play other brass instruments built to play in C, which is absolute bull$#!t - it allows the player to be able to play anything they want and also learn the basics as the fingerings for the written notes on all other brass instruments will still be the same regardless of the pitch, just as they are on all pitches of clarinet and not limited to only a couple of instruments of the same family.
As these are designed for younger players by making them both light and compact AND to be able to play at Concert Pitch, what is the problem with that? It means anyone can play straight off any sheet music without having to transpose if they're relatively new to music.
I still strongly believe there SHOULD be plastic C clarinets built to the same quality as a Buffet B12 (plastic version of the E11 C clarinet) or Vito (plastic version of the Noblet C clarinet) or Yamaha 200 series (if Yamaha were ever to offer C clarinets) to make good quality C clarinets more accessible and yes I am very much aware of all the Chinese C clarinets as well as the Lyons/Nuvo plastic C clarinets, but they don't have the same level of build quality as the established makes who have done their research and development instead of look, measure and copy.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-08-26 21:37
Chris P wrote:
> The reviewer seems to have an issue with brass instruments
> built in the key of C and thinks it's limiting the player to
> only be able to play other brass instruments built to play in
> C, which is absolute bull$#!t - it allows the player to be able
> to play anything they want and also learn the basics as the
> fingerings for the written notes on all other brass instruments
> will still be the same regardless of the pitch, just as they
> are on all pitches of clarinet and not limited to only a couple
> of instruments of the same family.
I agree with you, as long as the parts for the young players are written in treble clef. If they're written in bass clef, the lowest open note is written as Bb, not C, so assuming the students learn that the open fundamental is called and written as C, they will have some re-learning to do if they move to a standard instrument.
It's one of the headaches (minor but not insignificant for some kids) when a teacher moves a young trumpet player with range issues to a baritone horn because the range is lower, but lets him read treble clef parts because they're written the same as trumpet parts.
> As these are designed for younger players by making them both
> light and compact AND to be able to play at Concert Pitch, what
> is the problem with that?
For me, none.
>It means anyone can play straight off
> any sheet music without having to transpose if they're
> relatively new to music.
>
> I still strongly believe there SHOULD be plastic C clarinets
> built to the same quality as a Buffet B12 (plastic version of
> the E11 C clarinet) or Vito (plastic version of the Noblet C
> clarinet) or Yamaha 200 series....
My experience with C clarinets, no matter who makes them, is that they're inherently more resistant, even if only slightly, than Bb clarinets. Eb clarinets are even more resistant. So, what the young player gains in the more manageable size can be lost in less ease of blowing. C clarinets, IMO, would need to be designed for young players to minimize resistance, even if it were at the expense of tone quality.
Karl
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-08-27 00:31
Amati made STURDY plastic/student C clarinets for some time, I believe that they have ceased production. These were reliable instruments and more consistent than their wooden C clarinets (which range from problematic to excellent, but it's a lottery).
Some years back Ensemble Matheus (Paris) had to switch from "historic instruments" (A=430) to modern instruments with a few weeks notice, and the principal clarinet ended up playing a plastic Amati for most of an opera... he sounded great (though that one had been hand picked from a store here in NZ that was selling all their rental instruments).
I agree re Yamaha, if they made a C clarinet I'd definitely buy/recommend one.
My (wooden) Amati C clarinet plays well in tune with a great sound, but yes- it's more resistant than any of my other clarinets (including Eefer).
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-08-27 00:34
There are quite a few inexpensive clarinets in C listed on Aliexpress, from $100+ to $300+ . Cannot judge the built quality but for a beginner player probably would be OK, possibly after having a tech to check and adjust it.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2024-08-27 01:19
I wish there was a bass clarinet in C. Being able to read bass clef parts without transposing (assuming that one can read bass clef in the first place) would come in handy.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2024-08-27 06:19
I assume we're talking about youngsters using good plastic C clarinets for their private lessons. To point out the obvious (as a retired band director), all band parts are for Bb clarinet, so the 20 zillion kids in young school bands have to play on a Bb anyway.
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Post Edited (2024-08-27 06:19)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-08-27 10:00
Youngsters learning music in a primary school setting among their peers who most likely play other Concert Pitch instruments (recorder, flute, violin, cello, guitar, piano, etc.) which will allow them to play in groups playing from the same music as each other without having to work out the transposition if they're mostly beginners.
If they want to play from a young age and can't physically manage a Bb clarinet, then a C clarinet makes far more sense and at that young age, they won't exactly be the 20 zillions of kids joining bands until a few more years down the line when they can manage a Bb clarinet to join the 20 zillion others who do.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-08-27 11:29
Sorry Tom, you are way off the mark...
Play a C clarinet for the first 2 years, learn to actually hold the instrument properly (heaps of students get technical issues later on because they've started off playing Bb when it was too big/heavy for little hands). Then they can switch to Bb for band.... if they want to start playing in band earlier, the teacher can easily use Sibelius etc to make simple parts in concert pitch.
Sorry if this is outside your experience, but it's proven to work (Julian Bliss, for example, started on a Lyons C clarinet and switched to Bb when he was READY).
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-08-27 11:32
Around 2005 I had a student start playing an Amati C clarinet at age 8, he switched to Bb after 2 years, and passed grade 8 with honours aged 14. He didn't have to "unlearn" any bad technical habits, so much easier to teach him!
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2024-08-28 17:19
It wouldn't hurt to learn some music theory and be able to transpose anyways - in fact, many (amateur) wind players just think about making music as:
Press key x + give it a bit of air + make it piano or forte = note xy
Well maybe knowing what actual pitch you're playing in, considering why clarinets are transposing instruments and as an added bonus, learning how a larger instrument affects the tone (going from an C clarinet to a Bb) might help ANY clarinet player.
So I'm absolutely on Chris' side... beginners would certainly benefit from a lighter and more ergonomic (as in, easier to play with smaller hands) instrument, which could easily be realized in the key of C - maybe even with reduced keywork like the Howarth "Junior" instruments?
On a side note, for some reason, Buffet offers their "Prodige" Chalumeau/ pocket clarinet in the key of D? Don't understand the reasoning behind this.
Best regards
Christian
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-08-28 19:35
That's exactly what I thought about Buffet's Prodige chalumeau - it's pretty much redundant besides the tutor books written specifically for it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-08-29 13:19
Last I heard from Les Craven he seemed to be having quite a run on his C clarinet and was shipping them all over. I know his instruments now have nothing to do with Ridenour any longer and he has other manufacturers that he claims are better. I know he fusses with the tuning of his C instruments before passing them to customers..... and that's really all I do know. His company can be found searching "The Clarinet Company".
I've only seen one of his Bb, but it looked very well designed and crafted with interesting features like screw adjustment on the crow's foot.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Michael E. Shultz
Date: 2024-08-29 14:53
The C Melody Saxophone was popular during the early 1900s in part because you could play along with the piano without having to transpose. One of my fellow Eb alto sax players in high school could transpose piano music on sight so that she could play along with the piano. I learned to transpose Bb bass clarinet parts on sight so that I could play bass clarinet parts on my Eb contra-alto clarinet when Eb contra-alto parts were not available.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx
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Author: lydian
Date: 2024-08-29 20:54
I never got very good at sight transposition, so having C instruments available is convenient. I don't see the harm in it. Why would anyone care about what's going on in my head (transposing or not) if the music coming out of my horn sounds good? I always get compliments, not complaints. The tool I use is irrelevant to the listener.
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