 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ResourcefulHedgehog
Date: 2025-07-12 18:32
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I just received the part distribution for an orchestra I'm joining. On some of the pieces, I'm listed as "assistant clarinet" rather than with an actual part number. I'm confused which part this means I should practice- I assume it is clarinet 2?
For both the pieces where I am listed as "assistant clarinet" there is already one person on clarinet 1, one person on clarinet 2, and a bass clarinet. To make it even more confusing, when other people are listed as "assistant clarinet" in different pieces, they have been given an actual named part, so it says "assistant clarinet 1" or "assistant clarinet 2", whereas mine just says assistant clarinet.
Does this mean I am just supposed to assist whichever part is needed? So I have to practice both parts?? ![[huh]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie11.gif)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2025-07-12 18:42
Why not just ask the librarian or manager (or whomever is in charge of the group). Anyone here have make a guess, but there is only one way to know for sure.
You may be afraid to ask and look stupid, but that is far better than to show up unprepared and to look stupid for sure.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-07-13 06:54
ResourcefulHedgehog wrote:
> Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I just received the
> part distribution for an orchestra I'm joining. On some of the
> pieces, I'm listed as "assistant clarinet" rather than with an
> actual part number. I'm confused which part this means I should
> practice- I assume it is clarinet 2?
I would assume you're supposed to "assist" on the first part, playing only the louder passages (usually anything mezzo-forte or above) to keep the principal player from tiring. If fatigue is a concern, it would ordinarily be more with the 1st part than the 2nd.
Back in the early to mid-20th century (maybe earlier - I wasn't around to know) major orchestras had four-member wind sections *under contract.* If there were only two parts, management (sometimes the music director himself) not liking to pay contracted players for not playing, there would be an "assistant first" (who also played Eb clarinet) and an "assistant" second (who also played bass clarinet) - to double each part to thicken the orchestral sound in loud passages and let the principal players rest during "tutti" passages. Most orchestras seem by now to have dropped the practice. I think the last Philadelphia Orchestra music director to have used "assistants" for all the woodwind sections was Eugene Ormandy (who retired in 1980).
The one instrument that the Philadelphia Orchestra still, for some reason, uses an "assistant" for is French Horn.
Karl
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Author: ISM
Date: 2025-07-13 08:24
Karl,
That’s interesting. I had no idea. Thanks for sharing.
Imre
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Author: donald
Date: 2025-07-15 12:45
In Horn land I think they call it "bumper horn", and this person helps the principal rest their lips for the important solos.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-07-15 20:59
donald wrote:
> In Horn land I think they call it "bumper horn", and this
> person helps the principal rest their lips for the important
> solos.
So, is it that French horn is so much more strenuous than the other woodwinds (or brass), or that good French horn principals are rare and need coddling? ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
Karl
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Author: Claudia Zornow
Date: 2025-07-16 02:29
Before my community orchestra performed Beethoven's Ninth Symphony last June, I watched several YouTube videos in which three clarinetists were obviously present, including one with Riccardo Muti conducting the Chicago Symphony and one with Leonard Bernstein conducting the 1989 Berlin Celebration Concert (with Stanley Drucker). There are only two clarinet parts, so I'm assuming one player served as an assistant in each case.
I could have used an assistant myself -- that is the most demanding orchestral piece I've ever played in terms of sheer endurance!
Claudia
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-07-16 16:57
Claudia Zornow wrote:
> Before my community orchestra performed Beethoven's Ninth
> Symphony last June, I watched several YouTube videos in which
> three clarinetists were obviously present, including one with
> Riccardo Muti conducting the Chicago Symphony and one with
> Leonard Bernstein conducting the 1989 Berlin Celebration
> Concert (with Stanley Drucker). There are only two clarinet
> parts, so I'm assuming one player served as an assistant in
> each case.
>
Could have been. Back in Eugene Ormandy's tenure as Music Director, there would have been four - two on each part. In major symphonies at least in the U.S., all four are under contract and being paid anyway. Maybe ironically, Muti, when he took over Ormandy's position as Music Director of Philadelphia, stopped the practice of doubling the wind parts. Maybe Beethoven's 9th is a special case for some principal clarinetists - mostly because of the Adagio 3rd movement. I've played it without an assistant more than once, but in per-service orchestras that didn't hire extra players if there weren't extra parts. I'm pretty sure Drucker, probably many times, handled the part by himself during his 1,000 year reign in the NY Philharmonic.
Karl
Karl
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Author: donald
Date: 2025-07-16 17:26
Karl, with brass instruments you have to remember that their actual lips are physically doing the job of the reed- vibrating to make the sound. While no one plays high notes like "The Lip", if he overdoes it and gets fatigued on the day of a concert or halfway through a concert the results can range from precarious to disastrous. Like singers, the brass players will often "mark their part" (spare the voice during rehearsal) on same-day rehearsals.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-07-17 06:11
donald wrote:
> Karl, with brass instruments you have to remember that their
> actual lips are physically doing the job of the reed- vibrating
> to make the sound.
Absolutely. But the only brass player who gets an assistant in the Phila Orch or any orchestra I play in is the French Horn principal. I get that hornists play higher in the partial series than other standard brass, and maybe that explains the need. I really don't know - I don't play horn.
Karl
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Author: donald
Date: 2025-07-18 00:28
I don't play horn either, but I'm sick of performances (with one of the orchestra I play with) being ruined by horn players cacking on entries.... in a pro group where the conductor won't hire any extras and insists on a big rehearsal on the afternoon of evening concerts (the logic is this avoids clashes with calls by the main orch in this town, but makes concert day a bit miserable)
Post Edited (2025-07-18 16:12)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-07-18 07:00
donald wrote:
> I don't play horn either, but I'm sick of performances (with
> one of the orchestra I play with) being ruined by horn players
> cacking on entries.... in a pro group where the conductor won't
> hire any extras and insists on a big rehearsal on the afternoon
> of evening rehearsals (the logic is this avoids clashes with
> calls by the main orch in this town, but makes concert day a
> bit miserable)
We have the same problem, although it's because the hall is much cheaper to rent for the dress rehearsal if it's the same day as the concert. If we rehearse on a different night, the hall charges us as if it were a performance.
Karl
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2025-08-09 18:36
I have always believed, and have always seen practiced, that the “Assistant” position would be the E-flat player, with the first chair (Principal) B-flat/A position when the Principal was unavailable, or a relief player in a heavily clarinet written program.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: donald
Date: 2025-08-09 19:03
Isn't that usually "Associate Principal" rather than Assistant?
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Author: lmliberson
Date: 2025-08-10 00:16
Different orchestras use different terms.
My position (for more than four decades) was Assistant Principal Clarinet & Eb Clarinet.
How we approached the different programs depended on what was needed.
Obviously, if there was a piccolo clarinet part, I played it. If there was a piece that called for more than Clarinet I & Clarinet II, I would likely have played the Clarinet III part. Sometimes there were parts that were doubled, such as The Miraculous Mandarin in which the Clarinet II part doubles D clarinet. There were times that I played the entire part (second clarinet/Eb in Mahler 4th) or just the Eb section of it. I have played the entire Berlioz Symphony fantastique first clarinet part (which doubles Eb in the final movement) but most often just sat there for what seemed like eons to play only that final movement. I played the first clarinet part to Bolero but played the 16 bar Eb solo also in the same performance. Every day is/was a new adventure!
"Relief" player hardly addresses what the position really is. Most often (and, of course, dependent on repertoire), we would work things out so that we could equalize the work load in any given week. Generally, I might play the first half of a concert on Clarinet I and the principal would take the second half.
Then there were split weeks where there might be both a chamber orchestra and a pops show. He would take one and I would take the other.
And sometimes (rarely, thank goodness!), I might need to double the first clarinet part if the conductor requested that.
And if I really wanted to play a certain tune, I likely could do that, too.
For the most part, things were fluid in my section in my orchestra. It was rarely the same from week to week. And, frankly, when you have 150+ concerts in a single season, you need to be flexible!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-08-10 06:47
By this time, it might be interesting to know from ResourcefulHedgehog what "assistant clarinet" turned out to mean in his situation.
Karl
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Author: donald
Date: 2025-08-11 13:26
My bad re Assistant/Associate.... Mr Liberson- my career has been pretty small time next to yours.... but I DID once have to play the Eefer solo in Bolero... AND the Sop Sax..... AND the Tenor sax (conductor inserted an extra bar to make the swap possible!!!!) It was broadcast live on NZ National radio and I was quite stressed I recall. That was the early 1990s and all the orchestra here have upped their game considerably since then!
Post Edited (2025-08-11 15:46)
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Author: lmliberson
Date: 2025-08-12 18:49
Well, Donald, you're not really wrong at all - whereas my orchestra used the term "assistant" , some use "associate". Whether their duties differ due to the title is anyone's guess.
For a long time, the LA Phil had Co-Principals. Some orchestras (due to the size of their respective clarinet sections) don't have any assistants. Some specify the second as the one who doubles Eb. It is what it is, eh?
Re: your Bolero story - my teacher during my last couple of years of high school was Herbert Couf (of mouthpiece and saxophone fame). He was also the principal clarinetist of the Detroit Symphony under Paul Paray in the early 1950's. He told me once that when they performed Bolero he not only played the opening clarinet solo but both sax solos! They recorded Bolero later in 1958 (I believe) long after Herb left the orchestra so I have no idea who might have played the sax solos.
Bonus - we (the DSO) also recorded Bolero with Neeme Jarvi in the 1990's so there's proof that I have actually played the piece!
But then, only the Eb solo. 🙂
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-08-13 04:27
lmliberson wrote:
> Well, Donald, you're not really wrong at all - whereas my
> orchestra used the term "assistant" , some use "associate".
> Whether their duties differ due to the title is anyone's guess.
I always have assumed "associate" was a higher pay grade than "assistant.
>
> For a long time, the LA Phil had Co-Principals.
Philadelphia has both. Co-principal bassoons and trombones, associate principals in the other non-strings, and both associate and assistant concertmaster and associate and assistant principal second violins. It's a little dizzying to keep straight at the top professional level. I don't think at the community orchestra level things are nearly so complicated.
Karl
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