 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2020-01-27 18:44
What are the thoughts of forum members on treating or not treating cork pads? Personally I was taught to leave cork pads untreated once a good seal had been achieved, but recently I've come across a pair of Selmers with cork pads on the upper joints that have been treated with what appears to be a coating of varnish or shellac. The Bb seals well but the A has a leak on the A# pad. This might be because the key has been bent or possibly because of wear in the pin and tube over time.
Tony F.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-01-27 19:53
I find cork pads last forever...if you play regularly. If you don't, they dry up and tend to crumble. This is the the principle of wine in a bottle. You lay it on its side basically to keep the cork slightly humid so it doesn't crumble when you pull it out of the bottle. (also so the wine is aired out evenly in the bottle). The drawback; cork pads are noisy as they slam shut. Does anybody out there have any ideas about how to avoid this slamming noise? I have never had cork pads treated with anything.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-01-27 20:06
I would think any coating would negate some of the best aspects of cork. The idea is that they conform to the tone hole. Any coating would make them less compliant and take that away.
I am not too sympathetic to the "noisy" argument. In ANY playing scenario the very slight sound of cork upon the clarinet body becomes completely inaudible.
Also I've had corked clarinets sit for years and I come back to them with no drying effect whatsoever. If that is a concern, you can use Valentino Masters or Kraus Omni pads which are synthetic analogs that probably will outlast the clarinet!
................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-01-27 22:37
ruben wrote:
> The drawback; cork pads are noisy as
> they slam shut. Does anybody out there have any ideas about how
> to avoid this slamming noise? I have never had cork pads
> treated with anything.
>
I've had cork pads on my clarinets since my student days. Maybe I'm just tuning the noise out, but I don't really notice it. I know there's some noise involved, but I've always thought that if I don't notice it, no one in the audience will.
I've never been aware of any kind of sealer on my cork pads. It seems like two of their most important properties are their natural seal and water resistance.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-01-27 23:50
I never treat cork pads with any form of sealant or water repellent - there's no need to. I only prep them to make them flat and smooth and they're good to go (and the toneholes also have to be put into top form for them to be successful).
As for pad noise, it's probably heard more by the player than anyone else. I had someone concerned about them being noisy play an upper register F#-G trill on one of my clarinets that's cork padded down to the B/F# 'sliver' key and I was sat next to him. I couldn't hear the pad noise - only the F#-G trill which I specifically asked him to 'hammer'. Perhaps a close mic will pick it up (as they can pick up sticky pad noises), but it's only a small price to pay if you want longevity.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2020-01-28 00:21)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-01-28 00:12
Karl: not only water resistant, but actually water-friendly! I agree that the noise doesn't carry. Still, it's a nicer sensation for the fingers when the pads are soft.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: TomS
Date: 2020-01-28 00:20
Some technicians actually polish the face of the pad with some super fine sandpaper ... apparently has an effect on tone and projection. Similar idea to the the old "tone booster pads. And, cork can be tapered to better vent the tone hole.
My greenline R13 has all cork on the top (except for one tone hole) and also the RH sliver key. The bottom pads are leather. No problems after 3 years, although the tenon corks don't last and have all been replaced twice.
With plastic, hard rubber and greenline, you don't have the grain wash out and therefore I think cork can be more successful. With the poorer quality of wood nowadays, we see a lot of leather pads, which I suspect, are more forgiving.
My Alpha has a somewhat covered sound ... and I think I will have cork pads installed. In addition, the synthetic stock pads have a tendency to stick.
My Lyrique Libertas has bladder pads and I've only replaced two of them in 6 years! ... Might be the shape of the tone holes being less sharp on the edges ...?
.
Tom
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-01-28 00:23
I'll additionally throw out an example of a current run I am having with "silicone" pads (Quartz Resonance Pads). Those pads are virtually silent! If you are in situation as given above where you are being close miced (and I'd advocate for that over a "built in" mic) the QRPs might be a way to go. However after a year of having some "issues" with projection and tuning within groups, I am having doubts about the QRP as a standard way to go.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-01-28 05:53
I've said this a few times. I prefer cork pads over the onset of leather pads, because the cork is firm and the leather feels a bit spongy when I press the keys down. So I still like cork and I've used these since high school, I was turned on to these at the early ages from my days at Interlochen Arts Academy, also Bob Scott did this for me. Now I do my own repair. I then had some lessons in repair from the amazing Hans Moennig.
I've had very good luck with cork from J.J. Smith. These pads are not as hard as some other cork pads I've tried or made from wine bottles. These seem to stay on the softer side for many years.
I personally sand these with 6000 grit sandpaper. Very lightly, because the cork pads are already pretty smooth. As for coatings of some sort on cork pads, I've never heard of this being done.
I do like leather pads and synthetic pads. These seal a lot easier than cork or the old fish skin pads. So unless you love the feel of cork I'd probably be very happy with leather.
Yes cork pad seem to last for many years. They can get noisy but you won't get any complaints from the conductor or anyone else, because the noise doesn't carry. But don't ever do this to the lower register except for the first 2 keys. This noise Will carry on the lower register.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-01-28 06:06
Bob Bernardo wrote:
> Yes cork pad seem to last for many years. They can get noisy
> but you won't get any complaints from the conductor or anyone
> else, because the noise doesn't carry. But don't ever do this
> to the lower register except for the first 2 keys. This noise
> Will carry on the lower register.
>
Bob, I don't think I've ever, even when Moennig was repairing my clarinets, had cork in the large pad cups at the bottom of the clarinet. I've always assumed it was just too hard to seat a cork pad that large so it seals well. Is that the reason, or is it really that the noise resonates too much down there?
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-01-28 08:12
It is my understanding that as long as the pad is seated correctly so that it sits flat across the entire tone hole, there should be no issue with leaking.
As for the synthetic cork pads by Valentino (Masters), I have them on ALL keys with no problem. I recall when I tried this with the earlier versions of the Kraus Omni pads, the large pads where in fact too noisy. I am to understand that they make a softer version if one is interested in using them for the for large cups at the bottom.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-01-28 18:37
Paul Aviles wrote:
> It is my understanding that as long as the pad is seated
> correctly so that it sits flat across the entire tone hole,
> there should be no issue with leaking.
>
Yes, in theory. My question is whether the large surface makes it too difficult from a practical point of view to get a perfect seal - just maybe more work than is justified by any advantage cork would offer on those bottom few pads.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-01-28 20:39
I said that because this is the very issue faced by the Quartz Resonance Pads (QRPs). They don't develop a crease in the surface at all! But if you have a tech willing to float them in just right there should not be a problem. And the same would apply to cork.
however
I also mentioned the issue of extraneous sound with the harder version of the Kraus Omni pads because the sound of a pad coming down can almost clack like wood on wood (which cork is by the way). That's why Moenig used "fish skin" covered pads for the last four. Of course the Valentino Masters have enough give that the percussiveness is dampened to the point of being perfectly acceptable........in my opinion.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2020-01-28 23:05
It's not really possible to argue if cork pads are noisy or not. They are noisier than almost all other pads (both open and closed keys), both being louder and more percussive instead of a thud. Whether that makes a difference or not is up to anyone to decide themselves. Some players (e.g. who posted here) don't mind it at all. Some players prefer other pads and don't like the noise of cork pads.
I've never seen anything like that on cork pads on new Selmers (which IIRC have some cork pads), so I guess it's not original. I've never seen that on any cork pad for that matter.
Re cork pads on large keys, consider that bass clarinet often have a cork pad for the first left hand key and it is about the same size as a large soprano clarinet key. Though there are some significant differences.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-01-30 19:05
Karl, Moennig did NOT put cork pads on the large 16 1/2mm cut holes. Because of the noise created from large cork hitting the holes. You are correct as usual. But he did on the upper part of the lower joint. Just below the upper joint; are the finger rings, where your right hand fingers go, Just above the index finger is a cup. He'd put a cork pad there and on the F#/Bb key. It is a slightly bigger pad of 12mm's I think. Anyway, one day when studying with him I asked why he put the cork pads there, in a German accent he said, "Why not, the sound won't carry." For this reason I sometimes do put cork pads on the top of the lower joints.
The pad size for the upper joint is 9.5mm's or 9 1/2 if anyone orders these.
Great call of this topic Karl. Glad you brought it up. Very smart observation!
I have to edit/update or clarify this a bit. I really like the Valentino Greenback pads. I think these are in the Master pad category as Paul suggested. These seem to last a very long time. Back in the day of fish skin pads these were very hard to seal. Often Hans would throw out 5 or more pads to get a seal on a horn. These Greenback pads pretty much all seal the very first time. I'm sure there are other pads that work well, but I personally use these. Hats off to Yamaha. They use leather pads and these seal extremely well too. I think these are their own brand. This is why Yamaha horns really don't need any adjustments. You buy the horns and play them at that nights concert. No or very little adjustments are needed.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2020-02-01 02:54)
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