 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: pandaclarinet
Date: 2019-02-05 20:18
I'm very happy with my M30 lyre, it works well with #3/1-2 V12 (8 out of 10 are good reeds) great tone quality, the intonation is fine.
For me M30 lyre is almost a perfect mouthpiece, except it make a rough sound when I tried to play very loud.
That never happened when I play my others mouthpieces (which are made by zinner).
But, they don't have a ringing tone quality, projection and as reed friendly as my M30 lyre.
Maybe, should I find some mouthpiece that have a same facing as M30 lyre but made by zinner? Any suggestions?
Kita
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2019-02-05 21:25
My gut thinks you might look into Behn's Sono ($350). This model uses his Rod Rubber II (not Zinner) and will have more overtones and ring to the sound.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: Clarinet_GAS
Date: 2019-02-06 01:26
Have you tried different types of reeds?
In my experience the b40 I regularly used sounded harsher at high volumes when using a legere.
Clarinet body itself can also affect this characteristic. My b40+legere 3 combination sounds much better at high volumes when I pair them with a vito 7214 rather than my pre r13.
Moreover the rough sound you are hearing when you play might not even be heard by listeners. Have you tried recording yourself while you play?
Just some thoughts I had when I saw the post
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Author: pandaclarinet
Date: 2019-02-06 02:07
Clarinet_GAS wrote:
> Have you tried different types of reeds?
>
> In my experience the b40 I regularly used sounded harsher at
> high volumes when using a legere.
>
> Clarinet body itself can also affect this characteristic. My
> b40+legere 3 combination sounds much better at high volumes
> when I pair them with a vito 7214 rather than my pre r13.
>
> Moreover the rough sound you are hearing when you play might
> not even be heard by listeners. Have you tried recording
> yourself while you play?
>
> Just some thoughts I had when I saw the post
First of all, thank you very much for sharing some thoughts
Yes, I've tried V12 #3/1-2, Blue Box #3, V21 #3/1-2, and D'Addario #3.5
It's all have a difference problem V21 is the worst and V12 #3/1-2 is the best for me (now).
My clarinet is R13, so it has its limits.
By the way, the overall seems great except a little sharp (intonation).
I've recorded many times and have my friends (some are fine musicians) to listening my sound and even my professor told to me about the rough sound.
I want to change to a better horn, but I can't afford it. (I think my R13 is OK for now)
So, I want to find a new mouthpiece instead.
I don't know, or maybe a new barrel?
Kita
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Author: pandaclarinet
Date: 2019-02-06 02:16
ClarinetRobt wrote:
>My gut thinks you might look into Behn's Sono ($350). This model uses his Rod >Rubber II (not Zinner) and will have more overtones and ring to the sound.
Thank you !
Sono mouthpiece sounds interesting.
But, I'm afraid that I can't afford it. :(
Maybe I have to save more money.
Kita
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-02-06 02:48
pandaclarinet wrote:
> For me M30 lyre is almost a perfect mouthpiece, except it make
> a rough sound when I tried to play very loud.
>
Have you tried any other VanDoren mouthpieces? The M30L is open with a long curve. Maybe something a little less open, but more open still than the M13/M13L/M15 group, like a 5RV Lyre might give you the best of both worlds. Or you could contact one of the many mouthpiece makers on this board and see if they have any ideas about how to tame the roughness in the M30 Lyre you already have.
> My clarinet is R13, so it has its limits.
> By the way, the overall seems great except a little sharp
> (intonation).
I'm not sure what limits you have in mind, but I don't think the instrument has anything to do with this.
You mention that there's a problem of sharpness. That makes me wonder if you have a Traditional model M30L or a Series 13 version. The Traditional models do play higher in pitch than the 13s. Maybe you're doing something with your embouchure to compensate for the sharpness and, when you play loud, that's causing the roughness? Do you feel yourself changing anything when you play loud?
Does the same problem happen when your teacher plays on your setup?
Karl
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Author: vintschevski
Date: 2019-02-06 08:59
You could consider the Model N (N for Nutcracker) mouthpiece in Vytas Krass's Artistic Facing Series (perhaps the tip-opening of 1.13mm), or better still, as kdk has suggested, send an email to Vytas Krass and ask for his recommendation for what you are looking for. Possibly he could even reface your current mouthpiece, as he does offer that service. His mouthpieces are less expensive than many, but in my humble opinion superior to most, and I think you'd find your sought-after ringing tone quality and projection (and, I might add, ease of playing) in one of his models.
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2019-02-07 03:46
Karl's comments are right on...
You could also try borrowing a bandmate's clarinet for a moment and try the mouthpiece on it...see if you can duplicate the issue.
Quote:
Clarinet_Gas said: "My b40+legere 3 combination sounds much better at high volumes when I pair them with a vito 7214
Vito 7214 clarinets really respond well to being played loud with any mouthpiece. My backup rig is a 7214 with a Grabner K14...great for Farmer's Markets and other raucous places
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Author: Clarinet_GAS
Date: 2019-02-08 10:12
shmuelyosef wrote:
> Karl's comments are right on...
>
> You could also try borrowing a bandmate's clarinet for a moment
> and try the mouthpiece on it...see if you can duplicate the
> issue.
>
> Quote:
Clarinet_Gas said: "My b40+legere 3 combination
> sounds much better at high volumes when I pair them with a vito
> 7214
>
> Vito 7214 clarinets really respond well to being played loud
> with any mouthpiece. My backup rig is a 7214 with a Grabner
> K14...great for Farmer's Markets and other raucous places
Ahh glad to see it's not only my experience. I love legere reeds because of the convienience and for the longest time I could not get quite the sound I wanted with my r13 and Selmer CT. Sold the CT long ago and my r13 was having mechanical problems so I bought the 7214 for 20 bucks. Best purchase ever; I haven't even bothered to fix the r13 yet.
Anyways to OP:
Yes definitely trying to change barrels might help with this; do try them in person because people experience on equipment could be different.
I remember trying the m30L at a store when I was looking for a new mouthpiece. I remembered thinking that it had a very nice sound with superb articulation(something I struggle with the b40)(I was using a legere euro sig 4). I however opted for the b40 because it had more "flexibility" for note bending and it was more familiar(I was using a b45 before).
In hindsight maybe I should've gotten the m30L. Maybe I should get it now?
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-02-10 20:42
The issue is the Zinner mouthpieces have a very deep chamber and baffle. The ONLY way to get that dark and not warm sound out of an M30 or pretty much any mouthpiece is take a file and dig out the chamber and baffle. A lot! But then you can get into trouble with projection. The Vandoren mouthpieces tend to be on the shallow and in some cases you need to spend about an hour or up to 5 hours filing out the rubber. The Zinner's in some areas are 1/32" deeper in the chamber. I of course feel this is too deep and the Vandoren's are too shallow. I use an assortment of air files, that run on powerful $1500 air compressors. Even this takes 15 minutes and the files are diamond cut files, the hardest material used. Remember Ricardo was playing on Zinner's they had Backun stamped on them, but they were Zinner's and he realized he could get a bigger sound out of a crystal mouthpiece so you can buy a Backun crystal mouthpiece and overpay or but a Pomarico in Italy and get the same thing! Mitchell Lurie crystal mouthpieces and rubber mouthpieces were made by wim also.
The Selmer Concept is close to very good, but they need work or the sound will be stuffy. The Yamaha Custom's also are good but like the Selmer Concept the tip openings start around 1.13mm's up tp 1.24mm's. Just too open. I've fixed a lot of these with very good results. The first thing I have to do is bring down the tip opening to about 1.07mm's or whatever the client wants. Thats easy. The hard parts are the rails and the facings and I use a special machine or I use 18 or more feeler gauges. This stops flat spots on your mouthpiece and the curve is simply perfect.
As I've said before in past posts playing the M series mouthpieces above high C and the higher you go the flatter the notes go as the orchestra wind instruments go up in pitch, Thus why I now have a 442 pitch mouthpiece. A blessing to keep from biting when orchestras and bands tune to 441 and 442 when Buffet and other companies make their instruments tune to 440. Buffet and Vandoren both need wake-up calls. How dare they do this and mess up the tuning of their horns and mouthpieces. If people stopped buying the horns and mouthpieces for a year or even 6 months they'd realize they need to tune the horns to 442, because the rest of the world tunes this way. Such jerks. I told them I'd help them, they didn't replay to my 4 phone calls.Same with Vandoren, but with them I sent emails.
If you don't play in any groups the pitch surely doesn't matter, nor does the sound sounding bright above high C6. You can't fix it. Well you can. Buy a Yamaha CSVR and the horn comes with the Custom mouthpiece. Just use a 2 1/2 reed strength or have a GREAT mouthpiece expert do his/her magic. You can buy the Vandoren BD5 but spend 4 hours filing the chamber and using about a 3 strength reed or a 2 1/2. Oh as for files buy the curved files or do what I do and heat them up with the kitchen gas flames and use pliers to bend the metal. You need to see red and blue on the flies before bend or the may snap on you.
So your answer to your question is dump the Vandoren and buy a Concept or a Yamaha Custom and have them reworked. Or file out the baffle and chamber for hours and hours until you find the sound you like. Oh, I've had decent results with the BD5 (Vandoren) but I have to do a lot of work on the baffle and chamber taking out material.
Something to remember - less and less top symphony players are using Zinner's, because they don't project well. Greg Smith with Chicago Sym uses and sold Zinner's, but he had them made special so the chamber and baffle were less deep.
Feel free in emailing if you don't understand this. My gauges measure the chamber and baffle within a human hair. So if you want to send me your Vandoren I'll measure it for free and then you will know how much to file. Shipping rates just went up so I'll even cover the $4.50.
Last comment. I don't think you need to pay more than $250 for a mouthpiece that is custom made or $150 that is machine made. I think it's sad to rip off people when a mouthpiece only cost about costs about $40. I strongly feel music should be FUN not expensive.
Hope this makes sense. Cheers!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: pandaclarinet
Date: 2019-02-20 01:24
Thank you for all your help !
In the end, I found out that I love mouthpieces which have longer length facing with close tip opening.
I went to the store and tried all of Vandoren mouthpieces.
The best mouthpiece for me is M15 series 13 and all of longer length facing mouthpieces are good for me, such as B40lyre, M30, M30 Lyre.
But, I haven’t bought M15 yet.
Because, now I know which type of mouthpiece work for me.
So, I want to ask as many makers as possible for their recommendations.
Kita
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2019-02-20 02:03
My BD5 that I love was refaced by Bernardo here to have a 1.04 tip opening. I don’t know exactly everything he did to the mouthpiece (beside the tip, narrowing the side rails and flattening the table) but it plays amazing. It has the warmth and clarity that I’ve always looked for in more closed tip mouthpieces.
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