 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-12-23 02:34
So at all-region, I auditioned for both Eb and Bb clarinet and made Area on both. (I wasn't even that good. lol) I went with Bb.
Here's my question... Was that a wise choice? Eb is such a funny instrument. I worked all season long on Bb clarinet. I only wanted to play Bb at the all region concert. Then I wanted to take Eb to state if I got that far. But apparently you can't do that.
I wanted to know, is the Eb music they have at state fun? I'd rather have fun than be bored out of my mind. If any of you have students on Eb that have gone to state before...
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-23 02:46
You know, it depends on the music you're playing and what part you're assigned to on Bb. The Eb is usually very challenging, more so than a third part and even a first part in many cases, but there may not be Eb in all the pieces. Chances are too that there may only be one Eb player on a part, or at all, in which case you're responsibility would have been greater on Eb since the Bb parts will be by a section. You won't know until you play the first rehearsal and hear what you're missing, or not. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-12-23 02:50
The Eb clarinet often doubles the flute and/or piccolo. It also frequently plays in unison with the 1st clarinet, or may sound an octave higher
If you can't play the Eb clarinet in tune, don't use the band as a "learning experience"
...GBK (who has heard too many bands with awful Eb players)
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Author: TPeterson
Date: 2009-12-23 02:53
What Ed says is very true. In high school & college BAND music, I played Eb quite often and really enjoyed myself. (The piccolo player and I referred to ourselves as the twin powers of destruction!) Orchestra music was a different beast-- as Ed says, very challenging and very exposed.
Tim Peterson
Band Director & Clarinetist
Ionia, MI
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Author: TPeterson
Date: 2009-12-23 02:57
GBK also raises an important question, whose instrument do you use and can you control the set-up? I've played some real dog Eb's in my time, but in high school my teacher helped me find a mouthpiece/reed/ligature combination that made a huge difference. A good "eefer" with good parts can be fun and very rewarding, but a poorly playing or out-of-tune instrument can be a nightmare...
Tim Peterson
Band Director & Clarinetist
Ionia, MI
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-12-23 03:17
I'm playing a school instrument. It's quite nice sounding and not a huge stretch from the Bb feeling.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-12-23 08:28
GBK wrote:
"If you can't play the Eb clarinet in tune, don't use the band as a "learning experience""
If that's the case then where can one get experience playing the Eb? Orchestra? I would turn the sentence round and say "don't use orchestra as a "learning experience""
Whilst still a school boy I won the principal position in the Devon County Youth Wind Orchestra on my first audition. I suppose this is like getting the solo chair in All State. Anyway, due to one reason or another I missed the first day of the first residential course and so was given the Eb. That time was a valuable experience for me playing a lot of the orchestral transcriptions and proper wind orchestra repertoire.
I say go for it but also devote time to practice the instrument.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-12-23 12:18
cigleris wrote:
> GBK wrote:
>
> "If you can't play the Eb clarinet in tune, don't use the band
> as a "learning experience""
>
> If that's the case then where can one get experience playing
> the Eb? Orchestra? I would turn the sentence round and say
> "don't use orchestra as a "learning experience""
If you can't play the Eb clarinet in tune, don't subject your audience
to your "learning experience"
Better? ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
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Author: William
Date: 2009-12-23 14:32
GBK: "If you can't play the Eb clarinet in tune, don't subject your audience
to your "learning experience"
LOL--that could potenially disqualify just about anyone with an effer in their hands.
As for "all state", I would say go for it. Most of your audience will be parents or friends and they all have "forgiving" ears. Most will be pleased just to see you participate and be all you can be. Play your effer or Bb as well as you can and proudly. High school festivals are really just venues of learning experiance, as is most of what you will be doing in college. After that, it's the REAL WORLD for which, hopefully, you will then be experianced enough to successfully cope with.
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Author: RLSchwebel
Date: 2009-12-24 02:08
Moolatte:
Easy decision. After competing in high school and later judging countless times in Texas, run with the odds to actually making the All-State bands/orchestras. They will only take one effer to state, nine for Bb from area. Bad day on effer, you're out. Bad day on Bb, you could still easily be better than your competition and a better chance of heading to San Antonio. Go w/ Bb!
~robt
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-12-24 08:33
Why is it that everyone says an eefer is difficult to play in tune? Sounds like a myth like the infamous "break". Shouldn't be all that hard with a solid mouthpiece and a nice reed. ![[huh]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie11.gif)
(Bundy Eefer here, with a new Geo M Bundy HR mouthpiece and sawed-off Bb Mitchell Lurie reeds)
--
Ben
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-12-24 14:25
Eb is an essential instrument to know. Both Stanley Drucker and Mark Nuccio came into the New York Philharmonic on Eb. Stanley was such a monster player that he would have gotten the job anyway, but his ability to play Eb meant that it was easier to find a place for him until McGinnis retired. I think Mark's ability to play Eb was one reason he got the job.
Remember, though, that the concertmaster of a band is the principal Bb player. Except for the odd Eb solo, if you can be heard (and if you can't hear everyone else), you're too loud. You're the sprinkle of pepper, not the main course.
The ability to play a naturally bright instrument like Eb and still blend as part of the clarinet section is an essential skill for advanced players. Also, you'll be one of the few to be the only player on a part. Given the choice of sitting in the middle of the 1st clarinet section and playing Eb, I'd choose Eb. In fact, that's exactly what I did in my year at the University of Tennessee, and because I played the instrument, I was seconded into the Knoxville Symphony when they did Das Lied von der Erde.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris2787
Date: 2012-12-30 22:43
I play a Leblanc Noblet Eb Clarinet with a Backun Cocobolo barrel (Jessica Phillip's helped create this barrel so it can played with a Bb clarinet reed for better sound), a Backun Cocobolo Bell with voicing groove and a BG France Super Revelation Ligature with a Moba Backun Eb mouthpiece and I have no problem with tuning. I'm no professional, just your average serious player who has been playing flute, piccolo, clarinet, and saxophone since 4th grade. I'm now 25 and I recommend playing the Eb clarinet whenever possible! It's phenomenal! I wouldn't change it for anything!
I remember my first time playing the Eb clarinet in high school. I gave up principle chair clarinet in order to be able to play the Eb clarinet. I have such a passion for the instrument. I started on a Bundy resin/plastic Eefer. With a good mouthpiece and reed I was able to play it decently. Playing the eefer can be challenging, just don't ever give up. Also learn some alternate fingerings for the altissimo register, that is key!
I enjoy the eefer because it's a soloist instrument and is played with the flutes, piccolos, and clarinets... but occasionally there are some "boring" parts. Like every instrument it has its ups and downs. I say go for the Eb Clarinet!!
Here is a link to the official Backun website. I usually buy from eBay or from other websites that are having deals as this company is very pricey but worth every penny! Also if you want to hear Jessica Phillip's play there are multiple youtube videos available. I will attach one as well.
http://backunmusical.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk3MpOWRaEo
Good luck!
I know you'll love it.
Chris L.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2012-12-30 23:43
The thing about an Eb clarinet is that its "money notes" are pretty much up in the high end of the instrument. Occasionally there are solo passages that stay in the chalumeau because the composer/arranger wants the unique sound of an Eb clarinet, but you play in the clarion and altissimo range most of the time and (with those rare exceptions) any time you're actually meant to be heard. So I think you need to enjoy the sound and feel of a high clarinet tessitura.
My wife years ago switched from violin, which she had played from grade school through college, to viola pretty much because she discovered she liked the depth of the C string much more than the brilliance of an E string. I taught strings and band in a public school music program for 20 years and had many young students tell me they wanted to play the cello (or the bass) because they liked the low sounds and really disliked the high sound of a violin. As a band teacher I taught students who chose bass clarinet over a regular one for the same reason - and hated it when the parts started going up above the break and the sound hadn't the richness and depth they had signed on for (to say nothing of the crummy clarion response of most entry level bass clarinets). We often have strong individual reactions like these that guide our choices.
So, keep in mind your feelings about the native sound of the instrument. Fortunately, clarinetists can easily learn to play both (as well as bass) so it doesn't need to be a life choice. Often it's a way into an ensemble even if it isn't your first preference. But you asked, "is the Eb music they have at state fun?" I'd say it depends on whether you really like what comes out when you play it.
Just a comment on Glenn's about inflicting your learning experience on an audience. You don't (or most of us didn't) initially learn to play any instrument in public performance. If you want to play Eb clarinet in a band *or* an orchestra, the place to practice it and learn to play it in tune is in the privacy of your home practice room.
Karl
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-12-31 00:36
I played Eb in a military band. It's a lot of fun, but can be a very difficult instrument to get right all the time. I've had several, and even the good ones were subject to bad days. I think that no matter how good the instrument is, you have to know enough about it and yourself to be able to bring out the best in it on a bad day. You're very exposed out there. That being said, it's fun to play and very challenging to play well.
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-31 01:43
What can be a disappointment when playing Eb in concert band settings is how often you can be overlooked in some arrangelents that favour high writing on the solo clarinet part in quiet passages while the Eb player is sat there twiddling their thumbs.
One piece in particular which could easily benefit having the Eb playing the top line is one of the bridge passages in the concert arrangemet of Henry Wood's 'Fantasia on British Sea Songs' where there's a quiet and high clarinet choir bridge and all too often the solo clarinet can't control their high notes (going up to high F I think) at pp and it usually sounds like fingernails down a blackboard (and the conductor's or 1st flute player's face usually says it all).
When I've played Eb in concert bands where the solo clarinet isn't exactly the best player (but is still there regardless), I've often transposed and put the top part in on Eb as it's at the top of the upper register and there's a lot more control with these notes than having someone struggling with the altissimo at low volume levels.
What I like about the Eb is it will really get your chops back into shape if you've been out of practice and need to do a workout, then when you go back to playing Bb you'll notice the benefits. Since I got delivery of a new (to me) Selmer Eb with all the bells and whistles, I've taken to playing to it very easily and I can definitely feel I've done a workout by playing it for 30-60 minutes at a time. I've even managed to do some keywork alterations as well as the LH Ab/Eb lever was getting in the way so I cut'n'shut it to make it shorter and added a RH2 C-Db/G-Ab/E-F trill key so it has everything a full Boehm has, but in an Eb.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-12-31 06:12
I also have a Noblet Artist model Eb which plays well in tune if one uses some alternate fingerings in the third register. I once played a Buffet Eb that played fairly well in tune in the third register as well as lower down.
May I respectfully suggest that you frequently check your tuner as you practice the Eb clarinet? With a tuner, one can learn how to find better fingerings for the third register. If any other notes are hard to play in tune, one may need to get them fixed by an expert clarinet tuner/repair person.
Playing with a piccolo can be a real challenge. They often can't hear their tuning and that also may be true of Eb players. A very out of tune piccolo or, to a lesser extent, Eb clarinet can make the entire concert band sound out of tune! It happened last 4th of July!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-31 07:22
Always bear in mind piccolo (and flute) players will have the tendency to go sharper as they go higher - good piccolo (and flute) players will do something about this, but your average one won't and chances are they won't even realise or do anything to correct it.
Flutes and piccolos have an adjustable stopper cork in the headjoint and its position controls the intonation of the instrument. If the stopper cork is moved away from the embouchure hole, that will lower the pitch of the 3rd 8ve which is what is often needed doing. Although the cleaning stick has a 17mm marker on it, the headjoint cork on most flutes needs to be around 18-18.5mm away from the embouchure hole centre line to bring the flute in tune with itself. Piccolos can vary and there's no real set position for th headjoint cork - some cleaningsticks have a 7mm marker on it but this is too close. Somewhere around 8.5-9.5mm is better but it depends on the type of piccolo (conical or cylindrical bore) and the player.
The danger being on Eb clarinet is the top notes will most likely be on the flat to in tune side, so that will cause a headache if you're meant to be in unison with sharp blowing high register flutes or piccolos. There's not much you can do about flute/piccolo players, but there's plenty you can do to make sure you're in tune in the altissimo register.
With the altissimo register on Eb, learn the best fingerings to use at any given moment. If there's an 8ve or other interval slur up to an altissimo F, F#, G or whatever, then pick an altissimo fingering that speaks easily, solidly and in tune without having to work too hard to bring it up to pitch.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2012-12-31 09:20
I have been playing Eb for a few months now and absolutely love it. I came to back to practicing clarinet seriously in July after a gap of about 30 years. I don't yet play in an orchestra but have had great fun with the Hadcock Orchestral Excerpts book. I have been playing along with some of the videos on You Tube. In that way I have played with many of the worlds major orchestras which is highly amusing!![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif) I also play flute and piccolo and have used 'Audacity' to double track myself on piccolo and Eb clarinet. I am learning a lot about both instruments and have sometimes challenged myself by purposefully playing out of tune on one to see how I can adjust my playing 'to tune' on the other. As Chris P says, playing the Eb is certainly helping me get back on track fast with my Bb and A clarinet playing.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-01-01 23:33
I just looked up the price of Hadcock Orchestral Studies for the Eb Clarinet book and it's $22 from two sellers in the US - but as usual, it's £35+ in the UK through B&H. Why are we being screwed for absolutely everything in this country?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2013-01-02 01:05
If you make state on Eb you also need to bring your Bb to San Antonio, they don't have Eb parts for every piece the all state band performs.
The region I teach in doesn't allow you to audition on both Eb and Bb - you pick ne or the other when you register for the auditions. Perhaps its different in your part of the state. Are you 4A, 5A, or ATSSB?
There is very little competition most years on Eb ; I prefer my students to make it on Bb before I'll let them audition on Eb, but thats just me.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2013-01-02 13:43
Just to echo what others have said, and add a bit.....
I, too, love the Eb and play both the Eb and Bb in my high-functioning community band. I agree wholeheartedly that practicing the Eb definitely gets your chops in shape for any playing on the Bb, and the Eb parts will often get your fingers flying!
What I think is often overlooked is how playing the Eb is not just a "clarinet-playing" technical challenge, but it's more a challenge for overall musicianship -- the little beast can play over whole clarinet sections if you let it, and can effectively ruin intonation for the entire woodwind section (or whole ensemble!) if you're not careful. Yes, it can be a blast to play (as well as a beast to play)....but I prefer to see it in terms of a challenge to play it very well.
I subscribe to a musical "Hippocratic Oath" with the Eb -- "First, do no harm" -- which means that there are some unison sections with (especially) the piccolo or flutes that if they can't be properly tuned, I simply sit out (if the flutes are >20 cents sharp, I'll sound flat even if the tuner says I'm right). I'm also the first guy to ask for clarinet sectionals to make sure that we can get sections of pieces appropriately tuned and balanced.
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2013-01-02 20:42
Hi Chris P, Yes it is galling! Ordered the Excerpts from B and H and inside the cover in pencil was written 22 dollars !!! LOL.......... a 'must have' though!
Bradfordlloyd, love your post and you encouraged me to go down the Eb route and I am sure I now love it as much as you do! x
As for playing the excerpts........ half the fun is playing along with You Tube. ...Not least knowing when to come in without the complete Eb clarinet part.
The Rite of Spring is quite something in that respect LOL! Still you really have to learn the whole piece and listen to the orchestra many times over which I think is probably the best way to experience it! :-)
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2013-01-02 20:48
Chris P wrote:
> I just looked up the price of Hadcock Orchestral Studies for
> the Eb Clarinet book and it's $22 from two sellers in the US -
> but as usual, it's £35+ in the UK through B&H. Why are we
> being screwed for absolutely everything in this country?
>
Same thing happens here in the US with textbooks. There have actually been some recent major lawsuits where publishers have sued people for buying textbooks overseas (where they typically cost ~1/3 of the US cost) and then selling them for a profit in the US as "used books".
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-01-02 21:54
Chris P wrote:
> I just looked up the price of Hadcock Orchestral Studies for
> the Eb Clarinet book and it's $22 from two sellers in the US -
> but as usual, it's £35+ in the UK through B&H. Why are we
> being screwed for absolutely everything in this country?
We also have this problem in Australia. The price of books and sheet music here is considerably higher than that paid in the US and even the UK. I find that I can buy books from the US via Amazon and the price including postage is perhaps half of what I would pay locally. Delivery is normally a week or so. Sheet music is much the same. I use sellers like Sheet Music Plus and get similar savings and delivery.
Tony F.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2013-01-03 19:03
Sometimes it goes the other way. I bought the Rietz Concerto directly from Boosey & Hawkes and it cost me less than $30, including shipping. From U.S. suppliers, at the time, it was about $46 plus shipping. It pays to shop around.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: fromsfca
Date: 2016-04-08 08:03
I play 1st reed in a pit orchestra....community theater, where in any season I will be a expected to play eb and Bb clarinet (in addition to soprano, alto and tenor sax, piccolo, flute and alto flute and oboe...I draw the line at English horn, one does have to have standards).
I find the eb the hardest of all. Parts are always high, always exposed and give pitch to the vocalist. That is the key aspect of playing the horn: playing it in tune. Whether concert band or orchestra, do you have the ear to pick up pitch and match the clarinet correctly.
I play a Leblanc with a Backun barrel and MClune mouthpiece. The combination gives me sweeter sound that is under control.
So, before taking on this instrument ask yourself: can you play in tune? Can you blend with other color instruments? Do you have the equipment to maximize tone?
If the answer to any outhouse questions is not "yes"....do not take it on.
My opinion....your mileage may vary.
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