 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Filettofish
Date: 2015-06-03 06:07
I've been playing on a Backun Traditional barrel for about 9 months now, and for the last 4 or 5 its had a slight hairline crack running down the inside of the upper joint (where the mouthpiece fits in). I've recently read that many seal their hairline barrel cracks with superglue and other strong yet light epoxies. Has anyone else done this, or can they vouch for its success?
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2015-06-03 06:53
My repair tech has closed a check on the body of my instrument with some sort of superglue/epoxy, and it's worked well. It opened up slightly afterwards, but he just added more glue and it hasn't budged since then.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-06-03 10:10
Superglue (cyanoacrylate) and epoxy are different animals. Either could work, but for a very fine crack the one you want is superglue. Get the thinnest one you can and tip some into a small container. Dip a toothpick into the glue and run the glue into the crack using the sharp end. Continue until the crack is full and then scrape, sand and polish to restore the finish. Try not to glue your fingers together.
Tony F.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-06-03 15:02
Kalmen Opperman made me a wonderful boxwood barrel. However, even as I tried it out at his studio, a whorl in the grain opened up, making it unplayable. Kal used a toothpick to dab thin superglue on the outside and inside of the open area. He then reamed the bore lightly to restore the original dimensions, and the barrel played (and still plays) great.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Filettofish
Date: 2015-06-04 05:50
Update: Success! I was actually able to obtain a fine, unused hypodermic needle and used that to deposit the Superglue along the crack. Now the barrel passes the suction test with flying colors! Thanks for the input.
Post Edited (2015-06-04 05:50)
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Author: 4accord
Date: 2015-06-07 00:06
I'm a beginner at this but have tried the superglue method on a cracked clarinet barrel and several tenon cracks (clarinet and wooden flute). It has worked very well. It's important to use a very runny glue, because you want the capillary action to wick the glue up into the crack. It's also imperative to use a toothpick-like applicator and not go straight from the container, or a royal mess is all too likely. A couple of challenges have to do with the finish and making this repair as unnoticeable as possible, because usually it can be seen - the only question is how easily. I have had some success by using as little glue as possible and trying to be very careful to run the applicator along the hairline and not stray much (makes for less to clean up). I have had good success following with a buffing compound on a cloth, with progressively finer grit - down from about 1.5 to 0.25 microns. However, the bad news has been that there seems to be an unavoidable, if slight, change to the original patina of the wood. It is minimized by an application of normal bore oil, but it's there all the same. I am now using the technique on the inside of the barrel or tenon only - at least as an initial effort - reserving gluing the outside for a backup plan if the seal proves insufficient.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2015-06-07 01:48
Just a note to those looking for thin superglue and oiling syringes: go to an rc hobby shop and they'll have what you need. If you tell one of the people behind the counter what you're using it for they'll direct you to exactly what you need.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2015-06-07 16:11
As discussed in an earlier thread I had some objections against cyanoacrylate glue as it is said not to be really water resistent. So I preferred epoxy. But on the other hand thin "superglue" will penetrate better into hairline cracks which probably would be more important. I try to improve penetration by placing .5 mm bores along the crack, mainly near the visible ends where I hope that will prevent further enlargement (see photo: a wooden A. Uebel mouthpiece from the 1950ties). Most of fresh superglue can be removed from the surface with acetone or a special superglue cleaner, used sparingly. I then polish the repair with a felt wheel and linseed oil and think you can hardly see any difference.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2015-06-07 16:26
Attachment: SAM_0582_s.jpg (213k)
Sorry, the system didn't accept the photo. I try again.
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2015-06-08 13:17
You can sprinkle a little blackwood dust on before the glue sets. It helps make the repair less visible.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-06-08 19:01
While people do go on about superglue not being entirely water resistant, a lot of plastics used in the manufacture of woodwind instruments aren't either as most plastics are hygroscopic to some degree or other. But the rate of absorption is so small it's hardly anything to worry about and that's only if they're fully submerged in water for a long period of time which isn't a reasonable test, just as soaking a tooth in a beaker of Coke is a pointless exercise to try to prove a point which it doesn't due to the missing factors in the experiment.
And as superglue will wick its way right into hairline cracks far more so than epoxy, you're not likely to get water to penetrate once the glue is in place - it's more likely the wood will absorb far more moisture and a new crack will open up nearby, but I'm certain the bond between the superglue and the wood is likely to be stronger. If the crack is contaminated with oil, then that will compromise the adhesion.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2015-06-08 19:31)
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2015-06-10 18:59
Thank you, Chris. As you can see above I've learnt that from you. But I would be interested in your opinion about these small let's say "counterbores" I've used now for some years on my old instruments to improve penetration of glue and hopefully stop lengthening of a crack. M.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-06-10 19:03
I will either drill a blind hole or cut a slot with a piercing saw (and fill it in) just beyond the end of a crack for it to terminate in if it doesn't terminate in a tonehole or pillar hole in a bid to stop it spreading further along the length of the joint.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-06-11 19:51
Hide glue is for use on stringed instruments as it can be undone easily (bya skilled repairer) and has no applications for woodwind instruments. Superglue is the best kind of glue for crack repair and epoxy is the best kind of glue for tenon or tonehole grafts.
No-one uses hide glue for crack repair in this day and age as there are better alternatives.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-06-11 21:42
Maybe in the age of the dinosaurs they used the kinds of glues that were the only ones available, but things have progressed since then and we have much better glues nowadays which do a far better job.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-06-12 03:04
Here we go again!
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-06-12 18:53
I've never had a crack reopen or a glued joint fail yet using superglue, so I'm not going to use stinky animal glue anytime soon. If you like the smell of wet dogs, then you can keep it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2015-06-12 22:45
ENOUGH! We went throught this not so long ago.
There's more than one way to glue and/or pin and/or band a crack and there are proponents and detractors of each of the different methods.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2015-06-13 18:09
Mark, you used a German classic: If I'm right Thomas Mann in his "Buddenbrooks" had a very distinguished Lübeck lady in a special moment say: "ENÖFF" (Lübeck patricians felt British style was especially elegant, with an Oxford accent of course).
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