 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-04-01 18:43
I just found this interesting video ... it's been out for a little while, somehow I've missed it ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ep6akP_4qY
Tom
Post Edited (2015-04-01 19:58)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-04-03 20:24
Interesting, with a number of Bonade excerpts. However, it's about twice as long as it needs to be, with rambling digressions on barely relevant subjects.
There are also some interesting videos of Marcellus, apparently teaching a master class.
Tom Ridenour wrote a very negative comment, which he said he'll be elaborating on.
Ken Shaw
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-04-03 22:35
Too bad Tom Ridenour had less then a glowing review of this video ... I liked it, but don't know enough clarinet history to effectively critique ...
Wish someone had the big money to get someone like Robert Burns (!) to do a big budget production of stuff like this ... I know it's a geeky idea ... but it suits someone like me.
I'd really like to have attended a Marcellus master class (or all of them!) ... there are archived audio files elsewhere of many of these ... but some clear video recordings would be awesome.
I'd encourage Shannon Thompson to do another presentation, maybe on saxophone, or to revise/update/expand this one on clarinet stuff ...
Tom
Post Edited (2015-04-03 23:35)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-04-04 02:58
Gosh I find this amazing material. There is SOOOO much great detail about how to play properly (or how to do it the Marcellus/Bonade way that is).
Could someone point to, or synopsize the criticism? I find it hard to argue with any effort to archive the work of these "founding fathers." We cannot allow this groundwork and history to be lost to the mists of time.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-04-04 03:43
Oh...... found it.
I normally don't scroll down to even consider the comment section of videos.
You have to understand that it is a good representation of what went on directly from, well....Bonade through to what can best be described as the "Mid-Western School of Playing" (Mid-Western US that is).
Of course whenever you put out material like this you have to pick a side (get 10 musicians together and you'll have 20 different opinions) and go out on a shaky limb every now and then. I found a few moments within some of the detailed mouthpiece/reed/ligature almost shouting HERETIC, HERETIC !!! But that's the way it is, you'll never get full agreement on any of this stuff, but is pretty well researched and presented material of this particular school of thought.
Harold Wright? If you noticed Marcellus' demonstration of the "correct" way to hold a clarinet, he obviously didn't like the way Harold Wright held his clarinet (when he held it close in to the body that is).
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2015-04-04 05:02
I'm curious to see what Tom Ridenour actually has to say about the subject matter of the video.
Post Edited (2015-04-04 05:38)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2015-04-04 06:28
Hi All,
I have a copy of Shannon's dissertation. It is an excellent study and an enjoyable read. Some really great comments from her interview of Portnoy.
Tom Ridenour's comment is about misinformation. For all those who know him, he is not a shy guy but yet is certainly a recognized expert on a whole lot of things "clarinet." I hope he will clarify what was incorrect about the video presentation.
HRL (I am in no way associated with Ridenour Clarinet Products)
Post Edited (2015-04-04 21:41)
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-04-05 17:11
I found it hard to understand when the clarinetist spoke. The video should have had captions at the bottom of the screen.
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-04-05 19:59
Is the printed dissertation available from some publicly accessible source? I've listened to only about a third of it because, unlike a video of a music performance, I can't listen to this and do something else at the same time. Also, I can't easily backtrack to specific places (unless I've set a bookmark first) to re-hear earlier information. I would prefer to be able to read this kind of material, even at the cost of not hearing the speakers' own voices.
There is a great deal of material about Stokowski and the early Philadelphia orchestra that may or may not be accurate, and it's hard to tell from the narrative what is researched fact and what is conjecture (especially when she discusses why specific people made their decisions). Certainly, it's useful to know what the major products of Bonade's influence had to say about their approaches to playing, and they must all be taken as exemplars of what *can* work, even if not of what *must* be done.
I was interested to hear (or I think I heard, but I'd have to go back again to find it to be sure) that Gigliotti's almost single-minded emphasis early in a student's course of study on support of the air column by very constant, strong, conscious engagement of the muscles of the lower abdomen did not come directly from Bonade (I think Ms. Thompson says Bonade actually made fun of it). I was surprised to hear (again, I'd need to go back to be sure I heard correctly) that Marcellus, who pioneered the use of Moree reeds (supposedly because of their greater resistance) and their later imitators in the U.S. played on softer reeds than most American players. I assume Ms. Thompson has a basis for having said these things other than others' anecdotal accounts, but they fly in the face of my prior understanding.
Karl
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-04-06 06:23
One of my old teachers (Paul, now sadly deceased) studied with Gigliotti ... said pretty much the same thing about Anthony really being into "air supply" science. Had his students holding a piece of paper against the wall with their breath ... doing Yoga, that kind of stuff ...
You know, I had one of Woodwind's Marcellus mouthpieces. Free blowing, and I used VD blue box (no V12s back then). Had to use #5 reeds, or stronger ...
Tom
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2015-04-06 22:08
Karl,
You might be able to get a copy of the dissertation on inter-library loan if you have a university library account. Otherwise, you can buy a copy for probably about $40 from University Microfilms.
I read it from cover to cover and the entire document is exceedingly well referenced. In fact, as I recall, in some places just about each sentence has a citation. It is a very fine piece of scholarly work.
The material on Stokowski that is mentioned on the video is covered in an extensive section on the Philadelphia Orchestra's woodwind section.
I hope this answers your questions.
HRL
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2015-04-06 22:44
Thank you for the recent post. I missed this the first time around.
Not sure why Tom would mention Harold Wright in reference to Bonade since Wright studied with Ralph McLane and had nothing to do with the Bonade School.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-04-07 05:14
The ORIGINAL Harold Wright reference was a snippy comment by Tom Ridenour posted at bottom of the video (I would never normally look there since there is NEVER anything worth reading amongst typical internet postings). Tom wondered why there was no mention of him. Well as you say, Wright was of a different "lineage." His sound is almost the antithesis of the 'Mid-Western' school of thought in that Wright had this really plastic (malleable) sound that could be almost indescribably delicate. The Mid-Westerners had a beauty all their own, a sound as thick as paste that filled a room at the lowest dynamic levels, but it did lack the delicacy of others (like Wright).
.............Paul Aviles
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