 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-28 04:07
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Hi,
Today my family was looking around an antique shop to kill some time, and I happened to stumble across this pre-1930s clarinet (pictures attached). I am going to return tomorrow to test it out, but until then, I have a few questions.
- Is there any way to identify the manufacturer of the clarinet? I didn't see a logo stamped on it like most modern clarinets have.
- Would this be fingered more like a Boehm or Oehler system clarinet? I'm not as familiar with old key systems. I suppose I'll find out tomorrow.
- When might this clarinet be from? It says it's from sometime before the 1930s, but that's all.
- Is there any chance a modern Boehm-system mouthpiece will fit? I could also try it with the old mouthpiece (which looks to be a wooden mouthpiece.)
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Author: Neil
Date: 2014-07-28 04:47
It's an Albert system clarinet, which would be more similar to Oehler than Boehm. There appears to be a name and date stamped between the upper two toneholes. You can check out the name under the Equipment tab at the top of the page. Check out the mouthpiece, if it's a wooden Chedeville mouthpiece, it may be worth more than the rest of the clarinet. If the instrument's in reasonable condition and you've got the money, I'd say go ahead and get it.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-28 05:10
Thanks for the info! I've heard about Albert system clarinets, I just wasn't aware of what they looked like. I hadn't noticed the name stamped there - it was locked away sort of high up in a glass case so I couldn't get a really good look at it. I'll check out the manufacturer of the mouthpiece tomorrow too.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-07-28 07:33
Your modern mouthpiece will probably fit. It looks like a pre-1900 clarinet. It doesn't have several keys that were on later instruments. Also, the "pistol holster" case is pre-1930.
Bring along your own clarinet. If the one in the window is shorter, it's probably at high pitch, which means that it can't be played with modern A-440 instruments.
The pads I can see look shot, so it's not likely to be playable. Try to play open G or throat Bb (using your own mouthpiece if possible) to check the pitch against your own clarinet.
Examine it carefully for cracks, particularly at the upper part of the top joint and the upper end of the bell. Run a dampened swab through and check from the bore.
The case is likely to be falling apart. Figure on getting a modern one.
The mouthpiece almost certainly has no value and is probably unplayable
It looks solidly built. Nevertheless, the price is high for an old, no-name instrument. I'd offer $25 for it, planning to settle at $50 if it's low-pitch, but no more than $35 if it's at high pitch, and even less if there are significant cracks.
Ken Shaw
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-28 08:56
Thanks for the advice. If it's a particularly good instrument or seems like it would be easily repairable, I might get it. But they want $145 for it, and I believe it's in the store on consignment, so I'd have to get in touch with the original owner to bargain about the price. I'll see what I can do.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-28 22:57
Ok, I went in and tried it today. The cork was very loose, but with a little paper I got my barrel and mouthpiece to stay put. Mechanically speaking, it was in very good shape. It needs recorking and repadding, but the current pads are functional. There's a small crack at the top of the lower joint, although I don't think it goes all the way through the wood. I couldn't find any indication of the manufacturer, but "HP B" was marked all over the place, obviously indicating it was a high-pitch instrument. We asked the the front desk to call the owner and put in an offer... they said $50 would be "insulting," so we just asked them to find out the lowest price it could be sold for. If it's much more than $100-$120 I probably won't get it.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-28 23:13
Update: Counter-offer was $95. I might go for it. A bassoonist in the San Diego Symphony (who does repairs for a lot of people in the area) recently offered me a lesson on repairing instruments, so I can probably do the repairs myself while I'm there.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2014-07-29 06:35
What Ken wrote above is correct. I can only add that the keywork is definitely french. The only horn I have seem with similar keywork was a Pertin (or maybe Perrin - was difficult to read) from pre-1900. I note this horn does not have a patent C# and the register key is slightly offset. I would not be inclined to pay $50 for this horn.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2014-07-30 03:26
Looks more like a Mueller system clarinet than an Albert. Certainly way before the 1930's - pretty sure it's from the 19th Century. High pitch instruments would not be playable with modern instruments -- only of use in a Civil War type band, or something in the realm of the Victorian era. For 99+% of players only of use as a curiosity. $50 maybe -- I wouldn't spend a penny more!
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-07-30 04:03
LarryBocaner wrote:
> Looks more like a Mueller system clarinet than an Albert.
> Certainly way before the 1930's - pretty sure it's from the
> 19th Century. High pitch instruments would not be playable with
> modern instruments -- only of use in a Civil War type band, or
> something in the realm of the Victorian era. For 99+% of
> players only of use as a curiosity. $50 maybe -- I wouldn't
> spend a penny more!
>
I do not believe that muller system clarinets have rings. Albert clarinets however can have anywhere from 2 to 5 rings. Also high pitch instruments were made up to about 1940.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-30 04:28
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Thanks for the info everyone! They offered it for a pretty low price (not lower than $50, but low enough I was willing to get it). It's in good condition; just needs some maintenance work done. Someone mentioned that the mouthpiece could be a Chedeville - how would I identify that? Any identification the mouthpiece once had appears to have been scratched out; same thing on the actual clarinet. Pictures of the mouthpiece attached.
Post Edited (2014-07-30 04:29)
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2014-07-30 08:22
Rings were appended to Mueller system clarinet by Adolphe Sax in 1842 -- does not make it an Albert system. Celebrated Chedeville mouthpieces were produced in early 20th century Philadelphia of hard rubber -- not every antique mouthpiece is a Chedeville! HP clarinets were, indeed, manufactured into the 20th Century. Don't look anything like that one, though! Hope your new, old clarinet gives you much pleasure, Max!
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-30 10:54
Attachment: IMG_1276.jpg (58k)
Do you mind sending some pictures of yours? The description is matching up with my clarinet, with the exception of the bell markings, which I cannot find (I only see HP B). I'm attaching a bunch of pictures of mine in more detail (unfortunately the lighting wasn't great)
Picture 1: The bell does have metal covering the entire bottom.
(Whoops, it won't let me add more attachments when I edit my post. I'll post the other ones in another post.)
Post Edited (2014-07-30 10:55)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-30 10:57
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Picture 2: Another photo of the bell. No markings besides HP B.
Picture 3: Scratched area where markings may have been. The mouthpiece had scratches where logos could have been as well.
Picture 4: Do many of the keys on your horn have these circles on them? I assume it's where the keys were broken off a mold or something.
Picture 5: Thumbrest.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-30 11:00
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Picture 6: Upper half of upper joint.
Picture 7: Lower half of upper joint.
Picture 8: Upper half of lower joint.
Picture 9: Lower half of lower joint.
Picture 10: Lower joint viewed from the side (better view of the pinky keys.)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-30 11:04
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Picture 11: Back of upper joint (showing register key and thumb hole.)
Picture 12: Case.
Picture 13: Case designs.
Picture 14: Faint writing on the case. Probably the name of the owner, though I don't know. Looks like RW Nichols or BV Nichols or something.
Picture 15: Initials on the case, most likely those of the owner.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-07-30 17:57
The circles on the key tops in IMG_1274.jpg are where flat springs are screwed on the under-side. There's nothing broken off.
It does have the patent F#/C#, which is clearly visible in IMG_1286.jpg.
Ken Shaw
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-07-30 19:35
My impression has been that these type cases were used for instruments used by the military.
Bob Draznik
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-30 21:51
The keywork looks very similar - not exactly the same on the lower joint, but similar enough I wouldn't be surprised if it were the same maker. The biggest difference I notice is that the Bb/F banana key in the middle of the lower joint faces the opposite direction on your horn.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-07-30 22:28
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Here are a couple of pictures of the barrel. The mouthpiece was completely stuck to it at first - someone must have put it together and left it for years. Wiggling it out eventually did the trick. There's still a little cork stuck to the inside of the barrel.
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