 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2010-02-02 13:29
After I practice, I always wipe my reed down and dry it as much as possible. I put it in a La Voz reed holder. Then the next time I go to use it, even if it looks flat, as soon as I wet it, it warps - sometimes quite severely. After a few minutes of playing most of the warpage goes away but is this bad and is it ok to use a reed that does this? how do I prevent it from happening?
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2010-02-02 13:38
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IpdR-rsbo&feature=channel, Tom Ridenour's video on reed warping.
B.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-02-02 13:45
The crinkling you see in the tip when you first wet it isn't what is generally called warping. Warpage is a convex bellowing of the bottom of the reed (that's supposed to be flat) all the way down the reed's length.
What you describe happens to any reed that's dried out since its last use and can be eliminated in any of at least three ways. (1) After wetting it, massage it firmly with your thumb against the mouthpiece table or some other flat, smooth surface until the tip is straight; (2) wet it and just wait for it to straighten out by itself (although I wouldn't play on it until it's ready - it's just too hard to get anything good out of it while the tip is still wavy); (3) don't let the reed dry out completely in the first place. Lots of people have lots of methods to keep their reeds from drying out between playing sessions - as sophisticated as using special reed cases with humidity controlling inserts or as basic as storing them in plastic bags to limit evaporation.
My own preference is #1, but in any case the crinkled tip isn't a sign of a reed gone bad, just an indicator that it has been played before.
Karl
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2010-02-02 13:54
ohhhh. thank you. I will try the plastic baggie method and see how it works.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-02-02 14:00
janlynn -
All cane reed tips warp into a washboard shape when you first wet them. I think it's due to the differing densities of the fibers and the areas in between, which absorb water at different rates.
As you have noticed, the tip flattens out as the fibers absorb water. This takes between one and two minutes.
Until the tip flattens out, the reed is unplayable, and there's nothing you can do to speed it up. It helps to form a habit of putting a couple of reeds in your mouth when you open the case, so that they can soak up while you put the instrument together.
They're not common any more, but a 35 mm. film canister is perfect for soaking reeds. When I'm playing at home or in a quintet rehearsal, I take a cup or saucer to put reeds in with water, to have them ready for an immediate change.
If you often run late and need to begin playing immediately, keep a Legere or Forestone in your case.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-02-02 16:39
Or asperin bottle, or even better, an asperin bottle from a camping store that screws tight. I bought two a year ago that are small enough to go in the case with me..........NEVER leave home without one!
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-02-02 17:11
Janlynn, I know you've been on this board for some time now so I don't understand why you haven't read the numerous posts on this same question. I know I answered it many times as recently as a few days ago on another post. If you haven't already read my reed page and read the article dealing with this subject I suggest you do now. I've received many e-mails and public statements thanking me for the article.
The above posts are all correct about the tip of the reed waving once it gets a bit wet. As my article states, I use water instead of wetting the reed in my mouth. I dip only the tip half of the reed in water for 3-5 seconds and then flatten the tip on the flat facing of the MP for just a few seconds. That's all it takes if you keep your reeds humidity controlled.
My suggestion to do that, as I've stated many times before, is to keep your reeds in a freezer type bag with a Rico Reed Vitalizer, #58, my preference or #72 refill inside the bag or inside your reed case if it fits, then keep it all inside the bag only exposing the reeds and Vitalizer to the air long enough to take your reed out and then seal the bag again. That will not only keep your reeds humidity controlled but will keep the Vitalizer from drying out for a long, long time. Don't allow your reeds or the Vitalizer to stay exposed to the air for more than just a few seconds, just enough to take the reed out and put it back. Also, read the article, you will be amazed how well my method works. I haven't had a reed really warp for over 25 years. I can't remember the last time one did.
ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2010-02-02 17:45
Thanks for all the info.
stopping by your website ed, thanks.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2010-02-02 17:48
watch this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfDhaeePf6w.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: TianL
Date: 2010-02-02 20:40
I do similar thing that Ed does, but just with a dampit humidifier in a zip lock bag, with my reed case in it. It helps especially during the dry times.
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-02-03 13:27
Temporarily warping is a normal procedure. The tip of the reed is very tiny and penetrated with saliva very fast. The heart is even more thicker and needs some minutes to be wetted like the tip. Therefore the swell of the tip is appr. 2x the thicker part and much more faster.
Inner tension in the transition zone leads to the visible warping and the bad tone. After equilibration of wetness inside the reed, this warping is reversed and the reed stable.
One tip to ensure good performance from the beginning: wet the reed before playing in a water filled glass or box! Only 5min before starting your play are sufficient.
kindly
Roman
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-02-03 19:34
RoBass, if you read my website article about reed warping you will notice that I not only wet the top portion of the reed only but also only for a few seconds, not minutes. As I mentioned on many other posts, my Bb clarinet reeds never warp, and I mean never in the over 25-30 years I've been doing that. It's in my preparation, breaking in process and as I explain in my article, never allow the bottom half of the reed to get wet. You will really have to reed the article if you want a full explanation of what I do. Then if you don't agree with it and are successful doing what you do than by all means please continue doing what you do. It's always been my experience that no one thing works for every person all the time. ESP
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-02-03 21:58
@Ed: I wrote about my (personal) experience, not more. Could be, your method is working too, but it's not mine. Wetting and drying more times in periods is the trick. So the cellulose decreases it's capability to hold water and to swell. The result is a reed stable against humidity changes. That's my way...
My reeds will be submerged in water completely for 24h at first. Then I dry them some minutes and start playing for some minutes. After that I dry them inside a reed guard. This procedure will be repeated 3-4 times with only short swell time. No one reed was warped or wasted. All reeds produce full and clean tones from the first second.
kindly
Roman
PS: As I wrote, you can find the basics for in every papermaking handbook (not paper making for children but for professionals) or restauration handbook.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-02-04 00:32
RoBass, Your method is interesting but time consuming. If it works for you, it's a good method. Mine works for me, so it's a good method too. There's an American expression that goes like this. "There's more than one way to skin a cat." It's a strange expression but it means there's more then one way to do anything. I think this applies to this subject as well. My method works for me and yours works for you. Good to have this conversation. ESP
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-02-04 08:10
I did not rank methods as good or bad. It's only the experience of mine and other clarinetists, that a partial and short time wetting does not bring a satisfying result for the first play. Most of them had to "start" the reed for some minutes. My method is simple because I store the reed before playing inside a wet box (the common oboe-voodoo magic;-). There's no transient oscillation necessary after that. And the reed needs only 3-4 cycles to be stable. Normally you can use the reed after the "preparation" without pre wetting. It's swollen to a stable condition. Such prepared reeds are in well function for 6 months and longer.
Other methods work too and very well. But many clarinetists (who I know) were angry about the uncontrollable first uses. My method guarantees a well working reed from the first time. That's not better, it's only different from other methods ;-) The second important (my personal mind of course) step is the control of the reed condition after first wetting. Most industrial reeds warp in wet condition. That's a manufacturing mistake and should be corrected before first use. I stated some items about in our German board. Often it's not the procedure only, wich produces a "good" or "poor" reed, it's the misunderstandig of microphysical and microchemical process inside the reed mostly.
kindly
Roman
PS: But more important than the wetting procedure is the quality of reed. Most Vandoren, Rico and comparable are to refit before first use. Handmade reeds from Arundos or Foglietta don't need such a manual therapy ;-) They are prepared and tested more well. That's more important factor, I mean.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-02-04 13:33
Fwiw, I let my reeds go ahead and warp. They flatten right back out when I moisten them and start playing on them. In Virginia, where it's humid in the summer, it's important for me to dry the reeds quickly and thoroughly in summer. Otherwise, they get disgusting in a hurry, because of mold, mildew or alien slime from outer space (at least that's what Shadow Cat thought...) growing on them.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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