 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2009-12-07 23:10
Hey guys,
After joining the Army a while back and just recently finishing Basic Combat Training, I thought there might be some of you out there with questions about how all this works.
After playing in orchestras and teaching for many years, I decided that I would get a regular job with benefits. Honestly, I can say it's been the best decision I've made in years. Knowing what I know now, I wish I had done this years ago.
With the scarcity of jobs for us clarinetists and the fact that there is a shortage of clarinetists in the Army, I encourage those of you who might be interested to ask some questions. I will answer them as best I can.
BTW, I'm not a recruiter.
DAVE
Post Edited (2009-12-08 00:31)
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2009-12-08 01:29
I am going to Ft. Monroe in a few weeks. Right now I am killing time at the SOM. The Army is in the process of changing the way they do AIT and right now they are trying to move many of us out of here FAST!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-12-08 12:02
Life in an Army band can be a genuine positive - it's a steady gig with a steady paycheck, free medical care and a number of other perks. I am still happily married today after 40 years while many, I think most, of my college friends who married just out of college, as I did, divorced quickly. I think one reason was that I enlisted immediately in the Army Field Band for a three year hitch (it was pre-lottery during the highest draft rate of the Vietnam war - if you weren't disabled, it was enlist for a specialty "MOS", get drafted into the infantry or move to Canada), while my friends tried with varying success to find musical work in the civilian world. We had a steady income, housing subsidy, and the band's "special" status gave me a stable assignment for three years so we could settle in one place.
Anyone who enlists for a band job, though, needs to keep firmly in mind that it's still the Army. The Army's mission is not to act as a benevolent employment agency, it's to fight foreign Armies. Even in the "special bands" a player is only a catastrophe (or a few disciplinary incidents) away from being sent wherever the fighting is and having his or her instrument replaced by a weapon (it's why even bandsmen take BCT). You are subject to military discipline under officers who may or may not be intelligent, caring, or even musical. Being "shipped out" has far more serious implications than being fired in the civilian world. And you can't quit (the military has a different word for that).
I wish you the very best. It should be a good experience for you, and you may even enjoy the life enough to make a career out of it. It isn't a life meant for everyone, though, and young people thinking about enlistment simply as an employment opportunity need to be fully aware of all "the rest of the story."
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-12-08 12:27
The current "story" is that bands do find themselves following the divisions to which they are attached........BUT the bands are pretty much doing musical support missions overseas. There was a period where commands were not sure what to do with musicians in the desert. Now though, bandsmen are mostly just that.
It is important to keep in mind that the Army Band program has not had one casualty in the eight years of combat so far.............. well, there was one saxophonist who got grazed in the cheek with a round but I suspect it came from a critic.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2009-12-09 00:32
kdk,
Are you still in the Army? Sounds like from what you wrote that you were in a very long time ago. I have no idea how it was back then, but right now I don't think soldiers who serve in the band need to worry about having their instruments replaced by weapons. Today's Army musicians serve in their MOS (military occupation specialty), which is simply a musician. We do indeed receive weapons training as well as other tactical training, but the fear that one day we will wake up and take away our instruments and give us weapons is just plain unfounded. Of course there can be some duty stations where I may be asked to carry a weapon, like guard duty, but day in and day out, I will be playing in the band. If a soldier musician gets deployed, as many do, the playing in the band continues. I am fairly certain that soldier musicians occasionally do patrols or pull guard duty... I'm sure others who are in the Army now will know more about this...
You mentioned disciplinary incidents as a possible cause for replacing your instrument.... while this is technically possible... the things that could make that a reality for someone are pretty far out... I mean, if you are the kind of person who cheats and steals or is wont to drinking and driving or using drugs, etc., then maybe playing in the Army band is not for you.
I think this kind of fear-mongering is what keeps many people out of the service bands. It kept me out for a very long time. It was not until I sought out info on my own that I saw that much of what was said about the Army was based on prior experiences that are out dated. The above fear was a big one for me. The idea that your MOS will suddenly be changed on a whim is just laughable in today's Army.
After searching the previous threads on service bands, I noticed that that all had the obligatory "be afraid, very afraid" posts. It is my hope that this can be something new with useful, up to date information. Certainly there are clarinetists here on this board who may have questions about the job, the benefits, or basic training.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-12-09 13:42
We can and do sometimes pull secondary duties. And while in the band, you're playing for troops while deployed. That means GETTING to the troops which could involve convoys or flights on choppers or planes.
But there's NO way I can every see someone telling me that I have to perform the duty of another MOS. We're trained as musicians, they let US do the playing. The infantry is trained at fighting, they let THEM do the fighting. The drivers are trained to drive, so they let THEM do the driving.
However if we NEED to cover some sort of other MOS under some extreme circumstance, we are trained to a minimum so we can hopefully survive. However if it ever gets to that point, something has gone very very VERY wrong. The kind of wrong where people will probably lose their jobs for even having a chance of it getting that wrong.
Alexi
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2009-12-09 15:22
For those in the military bands, how hard is it to get a job as a musician? How many bands/groups are there and how does one apply/audition? Are there more positions available for certain instruments, say, clarinet or sax?
My daughter is 14, plays oboe/EH and alto sax well. She can also play the other saxes, clarinet and bassoon.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-12-09 15:27
If you're interested in that data, go ahead and see if you can contact a band liason.
http://bands.army.mil/jobs/default.asp
There are certain MOS's that are short, and others that there are a surplus. Also, recently, audition standards have toughened a bit, and some MOS's have tougher audition standards than others (oboe and bassoon require a higher audition score than other instruments). But that site, and the contact on the bottom, will be able to get you the latest info, or in contact with someone that has it.
Personally, I think I'm going to enjoy it. I've only been in one band, deployed twice over my four years of army service so far (four years at the end of this month), but overall, it seems like for me it's a dream come true. I enjoy the military life, and being able to play an instrument as my job in the military seems to be a best of both worlds compromise for me. I'm definitely staying in until they kick me out.
Alexi
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2009-12-09 23:48
oboesax,
Sounds like your daughter is in a good position to do well in the Army band. Right now there is a shortage of clarinet players, which means that there are jobs available and a tax free bonus to boot. Your daughter won't really be eligible until she is 17. If she were to complete an audition and get a satisfactory score, she could conceivably go to basic training in the summer after her 11th grade, complete her 12th grade and enter the Army upon graduation. Many soldiers do it this way.
I think that it might be best no matter what avenue your daughter takes to pick a specialty instrument at this time. Being so-so on many instruments is never a good idea. If, for instance, she is a great clarinet player who can also play oboe, she might get extra money for that sort of thing. The person to talk to about this is an Army band liaison; I think they can be contacted from the above link.
One thing too to consider is joining the National Guard or Reserves. That's an area I don't know too much about, but I do know that there are Guard bands. Many of the soldiers I went to Basic with were fresh out of high school and on there way to joining the Guard... mainly to have the Army pay for their college while they get paid to play in the band. But again, there will be others who know a lot more about how this works...
The audition process is pretty easy really. You need to play a solo and play some scales and then sight read. Let me know if you have any other questions.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-12-10 01:06
DAVE wrote:
> I think this kind of fear-mongering is what keeps many people
> out of the service bands. It kept me out for a very long time.
> It was not until I sought out info on my own that I saw that
> much of what was said about the Army was based on prior
> experiences that are out dated. The above fear was a big one
> for me. The idea that your MOS will suddenly be changed on a
> whim is just laughable in today's Army.
This may well be true, although I'm a little resentlful of your characterization of such warnings as 'fear mongering." Yes, my experience was a long time ago - 1969-1972. It was not by any means an all-volunteer army, and we had somewhere around 500,000 troops in Vietnam at the time, so I have no doubt that much has changed as all the military branches try to maintain adequate troop levels without a draft to hold over young people's heads.
People weren't "shipped out" often even then - I think it was done to one Field Band member during my three years there. It wouldn't have been done "on a whim" but "for the good of the service," which was always the standard in personnel matters. And a guy (we were still a couple of years away from enlisting female musicians) who was "the kind of person who cheats and steals or is wont to drinking and driving or using drugs, etc." was more likely to be dishonorably discharged than sent to a line band or infantry assignment.
I probably overstated my case and made more of the negative potential than even I believe is realistic, especially in a volunteer force. Nonetheless, my overall point still stands that the military is not funded or organized by the U.S. government as an employer of last resort and it doesn't have to act like a civilian employer. It exists fundamentally to fight. Only in the Marines, I believe, musicians are still (they used to be, anyway) enlisted under a separate contract, do (did) not take regular Marine basic and would be (have been) discharged before being given any other assignment than bandsman.
I am more than happy to read in your post that band positions have become so secure and inviolable. May they remain so.
Karl
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-12-10 03:13
DAVE wrote:
Quote:
The idea that your MOS will suddenly be changed on a whim is just laughable in today's Army.
Things are perhaps a bit different as a musician, but in general, they don't necessarily have to change your MOS to give you a different set of duties to do--including duties normally performed by another MOS. I know this because my brother served in OIF in the U.S. Army (in fact, he's just now returning to civilian life). On his first deployment they assigned him a full-time job to do that had absolutely nothing with his MOS/AIT. They needed somebody to do it, and they knew they could depend on him, so they tasked him with doing it, but they did not change his MOS. On his second deployment, he actually worked in his MOS.
When you're in the field, you do what they need you to do, whether it's what you signed up to do in the first place or not.
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2009-12-10 10:48
In response to DAVE--I had no idea that one could audition for a military band right out of and during high school. My daughter is planning on going to college, so I don't know how that would work. She is very advanced at oboe/EH/sax, and plays the other instruments when needed in bands and also in the high school's musical. I was aware of auditions for the top military bands, which are extremely competitive, but what you are describing sounds much less competitive and might not be for her. I looked up the audition requirements and I saw that she is already playing at that level and above.
Once you join a military band--can you move "up" or move to a different band or unit?
Thanks everyone for your comments; they are instructive.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-12-10 12:15
oboesax,
You can move up into a different band. At any point in your career, you can audition for, and if selected, move into the special bands. Although the chances of you getting in if you've already served 10 - 15 years in a regular band are probably not as much (Im' sure they want/need people who can serve a minimum amount of years in that field, even if it's not explicitly stated somewhere)
Don't discount us "regular" army musicians. There are some VERY fine musicians here. Also some that are not, IMHO, worthy of holding the job. In my few years in the army band (four this month), all in one unit, I can easily think of about twenty very excellent musicians who I would be PROUD to serve and play with anywhere, anytime. And out of those, I can think of twelve that would easily hold their own (and some already have proven that they could) out in the civilian world earning a living as a musician.
But like any job, you'll get the good and the bad. In my limited experience and how I perform both musically and militarily, the goods are far outweighing the bads.
Alexi
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