 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: packrat
Date: 2006-10-28 06:09
I recently bought a used Symphony clarinet on ebay. Does anyone know what quality or level this horn was made for? I didn't pay very much and was delighted to find good wood in the clarinet. The band director at the middle school where I teach has been asking for donations of used instruments that could be overhauled to supply his students with and he was delighted when I showed it to him. I thought I would try my hand at overhauling and repadding it for the experience and then turn it over to deserving students at my school who can't afford an instrument. He's willing to take anything I can't fix to a REAL repair person as long as it's worthwhile. I am going to try to buy on ebay 3 or 4 good canidates for repair. I am funding this myself so I can't buy the buffet, leblanc, selmer's out there. I know I want to stick with wood clarinets, because the kids I'm doing this for a fairly decent players and want to give them a reason to continue in high school.
There seems to be a lot of experience here with vintage clarinet brands that are not as well known. Are there ones I should stay away from because of intonation or other problems? I don't want to waste time, money and effort on bad horns, but the band director and I can repair or have repaired horns that are worth it.
Before you say I'm crazy, if any of you teach in public schools you know what kind of budgets middle school bands have to live with. We've all heard the "new overseas" clarinet horror stories. When I went down to help out with the clarinets, 7 of ten kids were having trouble because of mechanical problems and not telling anyone because they were ashamed of playing badly. One child put up her instrument and said we were playing notes she couldn't play. I tried her instrument and I couldn't play it. I just can't stand it any longer. I've got to do something about it. Our director is a really good guy, but is a professional brass player who knows nothing about clarinet except for the 6 weeks or so he played in college. It helps we went to HS together so we know each other well enough to ask for help.
Sorry, I just had to rant a bit - not looking for sympathy, just some good advice.
PR
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2006-10-28 06:54
I donated a Selmer Bundy that I overhauled to a local high school and I met with the student that received it. As it turned out his clarinet was knocked over and dammaged by a fellow band member a few days prior to meeting with him. I also included a new Clark Fobes Debut mouthpiece. A couple of weeks later I spoke with him and he told me that with the combination of the instrument and mouthpiece he could reach notes that he was unable to previously. He was also the principal clarinetist with the Philadelphia All City Band. It is important as responsible adults and musicians that we assist young people that are in need.
jmsa
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Author: johnsonfromwisconsin
Date: 2006-10-28 07:01
<i>I am funding this myself so I can't buy the buffet, leblanc, selmer's out there. I know I want to stick with wood clarinets</i>
Noblets and Malernes come to mind.
But why stick to wood? It would be cheaper yet to go after the plastic Bundys, Vitos, etc, and you wouldn't have to deal with the problems that go along with a wooden instrument...
-JfW
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Author: ron b
Date: 2006-10-28 07:09
It may be worthwhile for you to contact me off the BBoard, Packrat.
r
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Author: packrat
Date: 2006-10-28 07:13
They sell for a lot more and it I can fix up the wood clarinets most of those were more for intermediate players.
PR
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2006-10-28 07:57
For beginners, the plastic Yamahas are excellent value and cost almost nothing from Ebay.
For wood, yes the Noblets and Normandys are great. Also, you sometimes find old Couesnons which are not so well known in the US, but are amazing clarinets!
Steve
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-10-28 08:05
The more obscure wooden clarinets are mostly old, neglected, and in need of considerable repair expertise and equipment. They are also often obscure because intonation, or mechanics, etc was somewhat substandard.
"I know I want to stick with wood clarinets, because the kids I'm doing this for a fairly decent players and want to give them a reason to continue in high school. "
By contrast, the better plastic clarinets need a lot less work, and are pretty decent instruments even for fairly decent players. IMHO they are often grossly underrated. Yamaha plastic!
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Author: packrat
Date: 2006-10-28 08:58
Which models of the Yamaha plastic would you recommend? The plastic ones I was always aware of were like Bundys, Olds, and Selmers. I remember the Vitos were good, but they seem to go for a good bit more than I hoped to pay on ebay (I'll go back and look though). I only had 37.00 dollars shipping and everything in the Symphony I just bought. I want to buy horns that these students can grow into not out of...and so that was why I thought I would stay away from plastic. But you know you're right, the keys are even better on the plastic than these cheap pieces of overseas junk.
Ok, stupid question...I've never owned a plastic clarinet - do you have to worry about cracks with them?
I've been at this too long tonight. I've been through every one of the listings tonight. I'll go back tomorrow and look at the Yamaha.
Thanks everybody. If you happen to see a good listing on ebay for under 50.00 let me know.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-10-28 11:52
"Which models of the Yamaha plastic would you recommend?"
A Yamaha plastic is a Yamaha plastic. There aren't different models, except as they change over time.
The current Yamaha plastic instrument is the YCL-250. This came in maybe three years ago, before that was the YCL-26. I think there may have been a YCL-20 in the USA. No doubt there were different designations longer ago, I haven't been playing long enough to know.
They are robust and reliable. They are tuned sharper than I like. The pads on the YCL-250 have come in for some criticism.
Plastic clarinets won't crack, at least not under any reasonable conditions. Extremes of temperature might cause problems from differential expansion, but extremes of humidity should cause no problem at all.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-10-28 12:24
Never had a problem with the various Bundys and Vitos I got from That Auction Site. I repadded and recorked them all, of course, and after buffing and oiling and all that they played just as well as any other wooden instrument I had. (I should say "I played just as well...")
Plastic/hard rubber/resonite clarinets keep their tune, they don't shrink and become sharp and all that, regardless of age, they don't crack and withstand the occasional neglect in after-play treatment better.
The only downside I noticed was that the keywork tends to be a bit noisier (might be that plastic propagates key slapping clacks better than wood), ie you have to be more careful about damping in the critical places - cork might be too hard so use felt or EVA foam.
Save on the horn and invest in a decent mouthpiece instead.
--
Ben
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-10-28 13:09
I applaud your generosity - I wish there were others like you who offer to help our school music programs.
Would you like to come to my school? ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
Many of the lesser known wood clarinet have already been mentioned: Couesnon, Malerne, Noblet, etc..
I would add Martin Freres and Paul Dupre to the list.
Plastic Yamahas and Vitos (my favorite the Vito V40) can also be excellent. They seem to be built fairly sturdy and survive the bumps and bruises which come with playing in high school (marching band, etc...)
...GBK
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-10-28 13:37
YES to the above, Good for y'all, I've done this off/on for years, together with frequent loans of better-than-student-character insts., and have many friends, plus the overhaul experience. When more difficult repair [for me, springs etc] is needed, I'll take a cl [or send them] to local competent repairers, explaining the gift nature, often the cost is halved, TKS. P R, Is your "Symphony" a Symphonie ? If so its a pro Leblanc, since thats one of their older trade-names. Often decent cls are sold at garage-estate sales for even lower prices, and, with familiarity, the restoration possibility/time requirement can be estimated, which is hard to do with auctioned horns. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2006-10-28 15:59
Go, Packrat! I guess there are a lot of us folks who try to help out the local school bands by giving them horns we pick up at auction sites, yard sales, etc., clean up, repad, regulate, etc. I know of several others who do that.
By the way, this might not apply to many states, but we have the home schooling option in Arkansas, and since it is a requirement here that schools offer band, it must also be provided to home schoolers, so we have a county-wide home school band that also needs instruments. The county provides practice & equipment storage facilities and the schools share in the cost of a band director, but the students must have their own instruments. Just another way in which we can help. Eu
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Author: Mary Jo
Date: 2006-10-28 16:13
What a nice gesture for the future of musicians in our schools and society!
Packrat, I have a couple wooden EBay acquisitions needing overhauls, an R. M. Malerne and a "Custom JG Paris" that I suspect is an Evette Schaeffer, if you want them for your program. To my player eyes, the these instruments just need overhauls, with key polishing. The only downside: their cases are in bad shape.
Let me know if I can donate them to your school program.
Mary
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Author: tobayna
Date: 2006-10-28 17:16
it is very easy for a child to damage their horn and not be able to afford to fix it or buy another one. my daughter had a cheap vito, but it played wonderful. her second day of band camp this summer, she fainted in the hot sun and needless to say, the clarinet was broken when she fell. i did luck up and get a wood normandy is super condition. nothing needed repair on it. for 50 dollars....
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Author: Karenette
Date: 2006-10-28 17:45
Great idea packrat. I'm currently looking for a mouthpiece on ebay and if you go to the top of the page and type in a more specific search, for instance Yamaha Bb clarinet, you won't have to wade through all the worthless listings.
Good luck!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-10-28 20:06
No splits on plastic instruments, unless it has been sat on.
If a student is going to "grow into" an instrument it needs to be really well overhauled.
For an obscure , old wooden instrument this can cost three times as much as making a plastic Yamaha reliable well into the future, and playing really well.
This cost reflects a much greater amount of work, requiring a much higher degree of expertise. Often, the more time an amateur repairer spends on some of these older instruments, the more time an experienced tech needs to re-do the work.
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Author: packrat
Date: 2006-10-28 20:08
Ben,
Like most clarinetists I have several old mouthpieces Wells, etc. that I don't use anymore. I have a B-45 right now that I am cleaning up so that it doesn't look disgusting. I also am bidding on the collection of mouthpieces - Vandoren B45 and 5RV in hopes of supplying some with a different mouthpiece. One little girl yesterday brought me her mouthpiece. It was curled up on one side at the tip. Apparently she had her clarinet next to her heater - go figure. Our worst problem is that we
have some students who want to play with no instruments and some who have instruments that are of poor construction and a difficult if not unplayable. Some can be fixed, but some have the type of problem that will just occur over and over (Bent keys, etc.)
Don,
The Symphony I bought is a Symphony with a "y". I've played a Symphonie 3 with articulated keys and it was a nice thing. I even tried to buy it for myself, but found an LL I liked just that didn't need an overhaul, so I
bought it. This Symphony I think might be a Wurlitzer? I remember seeing
a clarinet that sold who's case looked like the one I bought - of course
that doesn't mean a lot.
GBK,
Wish I had the kind of bucks to be able to go to a lot of schools. Even though I majored in music in college I'm the school's librarinan now, so I sneak down to the band room and leave my assistant in charge when it's slow. Thanks for adding to the list of possibilities :-)
I've been checking out the antique malls and pawn shops too. My husband picked up a King (1940) trumpet for less than a hundred dollars that looked like new. The cork on the spit valve did not seat properly and looked like it had been welded on crooked - even the repair person thought that it had come that way from the factory. So probably it had never been played, the person who tried probably quit and never played another instrument again - another missed opportunity for someone years ago.
Mary Jo,
If you would like to donate the clarinets we would be very grateful. I will contact you off the board and give my school contact info so you’ll know I’m who I say I am. Oops, just realized your e-mail isn't there. You can contact me off the board at becky.woodard@mnps.org. Thank you.
All of you have been so great. I can’t wait to get these instruments into these kids hands.
Post Edited (2006-10-28 20:12)
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Author: Mary Jo
Date: 2006-11-19 09:57
Hello,
I'm just wondering how this clarinet repair business is going. I'd also like to know if you got the two clarinets I sent you and the check to help out with your expenses repairing instruments for the children.
Signed: Mary Jo, who is feeling just a little foolish about now.
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Author: bwilber
Date: 2006-11-19 11:04
About a year and half ago I got interested in clarinets after being out of school 42 years and I find it a wonderful hobby. At first I paid $60.00 to a local instrument repair place just to have 3 tenon corks replaced and spent close to $1,000.00 to have 4 clarinets overhauled that I won on Ebay. What I finally did was to send away to the Music Medic for a basic repair kit to get started and over time have added to my supplies and have learned to do the repairs myself. It takes for me from 10-15 hours or more depending on the problems that come up, to overhaul a clarinet to get it to playing well. It takes time to clean and polish the keys. Sometimes the keys are bent. Sometimes I can't get the screws out because they are rusted in. Sometimes the posts are loose and what do you do then? Sometimes the springs are busted and you have to get them out and replace them. It takes time to put the proper cork silencers on the keys and to get them to the proper height. What takes me the most time is fitting the keys back on so that they are the correct height. You have to make sure that the pads aren't too thin or too thick. They can't be too small for the pad cup or to large either. The key cups can't be crooked and you need to straighten them out and you need the correct pliers for that or you damage the key cups. The keys have to be properly seated and for that, you have is a good leak light. You can have both the upper stack and the lower stack sealing well, but when you play the clarinet, it won't play because the bridge keys aren't properly adjusted. What I found that helped me tremendously was to borrow a clarinet that I have had done professionally that's up for sale at a local music store and studied it when I overhauled a few clarinets. I studied them for correct key height, etc., and it helped me a great deal. Unless you have one sitting in front of you that you can see exactly how it's supposed to look, it's hard to know if you are doing it right or not. I have come to the conclusion though that anyone who plays a clarinet, should own a leak light and know something about how to fix them because it takes just the least little bump and a key is out of adjustment and the clarinet won't play. Around here in Wisconsin, it takes 1 month from the time you take your clarinet in to get it fixed, until you get it back and if you know anything about how to fix them, you could do it in 5 minutes and cost you nothing in time or money. To me for one to own and play a clarinet and not know how to fix it, is like owning a car, but not knowing how to check the oil level. A thought on what is a good clarinet. Bundys are wonderful sounding clarinets but just like any other clarinet, they have to be properly sealed and corked. A really nice sounding clarinet I think are the Selmer's 103's or 200's or 210's. Buffet B-12's are nice and Vitos are good too. If a Bundy or Vito or Buffet is properly fixed up, it's hard to tell the difference between one of them and an expensive intermediate. For a child that just loves the clarinet, I would skip an intermediate and get a good used professional clarinet.
Bonnie Wilber
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-11-19 12:48
>>Plastic clarinets won't crack, at least not under any reasonable conditions. >>
It's true that plastic clarinets won't crack due to the weather conditions that can crack wooden clarinets, but it's possible to break a plastic clarinet. I've seen several at flea markets and yard sales with tenons broken. In one case (lowest tenon broken off completely and bell cracked in half), I was able to question the original owner about what had happend: at a football game, a high school student accidentally dropped the clarinet through the bleachers onto the concrete walkway below. I've also heard a broken tenon story (second-hand, from the child's homeroom teacher who doesn't teach band) about an angry grade school student swinging an assembled clarinet like a baseball bat, against the band room wall. Apparently, he'd been begging to quit. Getting assigned to last chair in a seat jump provided the final humiliation.
But the clarinet one child begs to quit is the wonderful opportunity for another child whose parents can't afford a new instrument, and I think that restoring good student clarinets and making them available to low-income students is a major mitzvah.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2006-11-19 13:06
I have seen plastic instruments break. I owned a Bundy from the late 1960s, and the first trouble sign was a chip on the end of the bell. That one may have been due to a minor accident, but I can't recall what triggered it.
Eventually, I noticed a crack beginning to form, a couple of years later, on the tenon connecting the lower joint and the bell, and this actually required replacing the entire lower joint, as it nearly broke off. By this point, I was only using the horn as a marching band instrumnent, but it was annoying, nonetheless. Fortunately, I was at a parade during the "concert" season, so I could send it off for replacement without having to fend without an instrument (there was no way on earth that I was going to take my one-year-old R-13 onto ANY field!) so it wasn't a hardship. Our school had no "loaners."
As near as we can figure, the Bundy merely had a defect in the tenon, and there was no cause that we could otherwise blame this on, such as dropping or other trauma. It wasn't a great loss to be without the instrument, as it was a pretty lousy horn, in any case. By the time I realized how bad it really was, overall, it was too late to do anything serous to remedy the problem, and a year or so later, I got my first decent horn.
Jeff
Post Edited (2006-11-19 13:09)
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Author: packrat
Date: 2006-11-19 22:37
Update: I've been very busy working on this project. As of Sunday morning 1:45 am, I have finished repairs on 3 clarinets. Three of which are already in the hands of the kids at my school. The 4th is a large bore wood clarinet and none of the mouthpieces I currently have fit - they are loose, so when the group I bought on ebay come in I'll pick one and recork it and sand it down to fit. I've had to give out 3 old mouthpieces to replace lost/stolen/damaged ones. I have two more coming clarinets coming in soon and have 1 here to work on next week. I paid between 28 - 65 each (including shipping) for each of the instruments I bought. I have also bought 1 clarinet case and 2 flute cases to replace bad ones.
It taken me much longer than a repairman, but I've taken my time and very carefully thought through each repair. I bought a repair kit and other repair supplies (that's like a treasure hunt). Finding and waiting for the proper supplies took awhile too, but with the help of Don, one of our members who adopted me, I have fixed bent key, completely cleaned and overhauled one wood clarinet, learned how to repad (still working on that skill :-), broke a spring and fixed it, learned to recork tenon joints. And miracle of miracles they all work! I play tested them before I gave them to our band director for the kids so I know they were all working well. The band director even brought me a child's horn to fix the upper joint tenon cork on, so I feel like I am really helping out. I'll never be good enough to fix everything, but I feel like I can with guidance attempt and fix most minor problems. I will continue to pick up an instrument here and there when cost and time permits. I may even try my hand at a flute.
Mary Jo, I want to thank you for your generousity. I emailed you after I received everything, but I want to publicly thank you as well. No you weren't foolish.
There is no way I could have done all this is not for the interest and help of members of this bulletin board. You have inspired and boosted my confidence in this project. I think that each summer I will try to do something like this so that when school starts they have the instruments to begin on.
Again, thanks to all of you who have helped
Becky
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Author: lhb
Date: 2009-06-29 01:31
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I still have my Symphony clarinet that I played in High School... back in the late 70's... .
I have heard that it may have been built by Wurlitzer, and it may be possible as I lived only a few miles from the Wurlitzer factory. I also have a Lyric also saxophone that is beatifully inscribed "custom built by Wurlitzer" right on it!
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