 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Molloy
Date: 2008-04-04 02:45
I'm excited about getting a full boehm Silva Bet (at eBay). I'm hoping it's restorable, it looked worn but sound in the photos. I only noticed the listing a few hours before it ended so I didn't get a chance to ask the seller any questions. I'll get it from the post office tomorrow.
It's going to need everything, including replating. I think I want it gold plated. Who does fine restoration work on metal clarinets? (I'm in Indiana, and willing to send it anywhere in the USA.)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-04-04 13:57
I hope you'll reconsider getting the Silva-Bet gold-plated. This instrument is a near-antique and, if it's a typical Silva-Bet, probably a good instrument. I think it deserves the respect of being restored to original condition, to the extent possible.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Molloy
Date: 2008-04-04 14:21
> I hope you'll reconsider getting the Silva-Bet gold-plated.
> This instrument is a near-antique and, if it's a typical
> Silva-Bet, probably a good instrument. I think it deserves the
> respect of being restored to original condition, to the extent
> possible.
I'm sure hoping it's a good instrument. I have an H Bettoney metal clarinet that feels and sounds great, that's what made me decide I'd try to get a Silva Bet when a full-boehmer became available.
Whether or not plating it gold would be disrespectful is, I guess, a matter of opinion. A $1500 (I'm guessing that's about what it would cost) restoration with gold plating sounds rather respectful to me.
It's called a *Silva* Bet, not a Goldn Bet... but silver plating something makes no sense to me. Silver is just too chemically active, it tarnishes almost immediately. I think I'd rather leave it an ugly duckling than pay for silver plate.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-04-04 15:12
...but gold just looks cheap.
This is a clarinet and not a soprano sax!
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-04 17:59
"but silver plating something makes no sense to me. Silver is just too chemically active, it tarnishes almost immediately. I think I'd rather leave it an ugly duckling than pay for silver plate."
Platers can add a special coating to the silver after plating which slows down the rate of tarnish.
But if you're happy with what it'll probably look like after it's all been cleaned up and restored (and more importantly, how well it plays), then leave it with what plating it still has left (but polished).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-04-04 19:18
I disagree that silver "tarnishes almost immediately". I have quite a few silver-plated saxophones from the 1920s through 1950s, some of which I play regularly and some which mostly sit in the closet. All were restored, including polishing and minor plating touch-up (but not replating) between one and six years ago. Some are mostly matte-finish silver, some are polished silver finish. All look good, reasonably shiny, with only a wipedown after playing. In general, following their initial de-tarnish and polishing during overhaul, they've needed very little additional cosmetic attention compared to other finishes. The same applies to a couple of silver-plated metal clarinets I have, and some wood clarinets with silver-plated keywork. There's no reason to avoid silver.
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Author: Molloy
Date: 2008-04-04 19:59
> I disagree that silver "tarnishes almost immediately".
It might be a matter of local atmospheric acidity or something. I got a nice old Buescher alto, matte Silver, and had it overhauled and polished. It looked clean for a week or two. Now, three months later, it looks like about like it did when I bought it.
Most of my clarinets are vintage, with unplated nickel-silver keys. I do have a newish Patricola eefer; its silver-plated keywork is almost black, except where finger contact keeps it shiny.
> if you're happy with what it'll probably look like after it's all been cleaned up and restored (and more importantly, how well it plays), then leave it with what plating it still has left (but polished).
I have the Silva Bet in hand now. It's better than I expected -- body straight and undented, keys moving ok, microtuner sluggish but turning. The body plating is mostly intact and the key plating is not too bad. I'm going to just leave it as is (except for a good cleaning), plating-wise. The pads are shot, so it'll be a week or two before I can see how it plays.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-04-04 20:14
I'm much in agreement with restoring to "better than new" condition, with Ag plating, especially for a Full Boehm. Near original is best for value, IMHO. I considered getting a gold [Au] plated keyed, top-of-line oboe from Jack Linton on back, and the add'l cost was too much for me. There may be something to say about the "key-feel" diff between Ni silver, Silver and Gold, however, but hope that those who know may respond here. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-04-04 21:41
To plate or not to plate, that is the question. I hated the non-plated nickel silver metal work of my first clarinet. It would never shine up like the other kids' horns.
However, there are some advantages to unplated nickel silver keywork as some have found in the past. As I've aged I've developed more respect for unplated keys. Whatever you prefer is what's best, however.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-04-04 21:51
My mother had big flannel bags for her large silver serving pieces, impregnated with anti-tarnish chemicals. Her silver never tarnished. If you can't find a bag big enough at a silver goods store, you could get just get the fabric and line the case with it, or roll up the instrument in it. See for example http://www.silverguard.com/c-6-pacific-silvercloth.aspx
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-04 22:19
And keeping a 3M anti-tarnish strip in the case will help - I've had my Jupiter alto flute for around 6 years, and the silver plating is still immaculate (though I do wipe it down after playing).
However, my Buffet Eb which I had silver plated has tarnished considerably, which I suspect is down to the case lining (which is a new R13 Eb case). The other clarinet I had replated by the same company around the same time hasn't tarnished like this (and that's my Series 9 Bb which is kept in a Yamaha double case).
Factors that cause tarnish are an increased level of sulphur, either airborne (usually near volcanic areas or near oil or petrochemical refineries) or from the products used to tan or dye leather used to cover cases with, some synthetics used to cover cases with, in glue or fabric dye as well as foam padding used in case manufacture.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2008-04-04 22:50
I keep my silver instruments in a display case with a silver protect cloth that you can get from a local fabric store. It works really well. If I leave a silver instrument out it goes black pretty fast. But in the cabinet it keeps well. I have never refurbed an instrument to different than the original; somehow that just doesn't see right. But it is your instrument.
By the way, I think that is one I bid on and the price went rather quickly to levels I found hard to justify for the amount of playing (or not playing) I'd be doing.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-04-05 01:07
holy crap, there's a brillhart ligature in addition to the chedeville mouthpiece in that case. 1 line up 3 lines down.
woooo..... good stuff
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Wes
Date: 2008-04-05 02:50
Hi!
Yes, I can verify that the Silva Bet full Boehm clarinet plays very well as I have one in fine condition. As I recall, it also has small resonators on the large pads. When I bought it, I knew nothing about it and the owner sort of badgered me to take it off his hands at a low price. Later, I realized that it was a desired model.
In my closet, I have a regular Silva Bet with frozen rods. Despite a lot of penetrating oil plus Corrosion Cracker and repeated heating in an oven and cooling in a freezer, it refuses to come apart with gentle efforts. I'm not sure what the next step would be.
Good Luck with your new acquisition!
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Author: Michael E. Shultz
Date: 2008-04-05 11:00
The sulfur in your rubber mouthpiece can also cause the silver to tarnish, even with a 3M anti-tarnish strip in the case, as I found out from experience.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx
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Author: Molloy
Date: 2008-04-05 14:46
When I got it home and could inspect it at leisure, I saw that the Silva Bet's bell has been broken off and reattached. It's not very noticeable from the outside, but on the inside it's a very rough seam with up to a millimeter discrepancy between body-bore and bell-bore. Rejoice, ye who did *not* buy this clarinet!
So I paid way too much for this thing and am no longer even considering investing in restoration. I guess I'll still get it overhauled. Probably the damage/repair won't have much effect on how it plays, and I'd rather spend $900 on something than $650 on nothing.
I don't think I've ever bought something for more than $400 at ebay and ended up happy about it.
[[ holy crap, there's a brillhart ligature in addition to the chedeville mouthpiece in that case ]]
I knew that the old Bettoney mouthpieces are considered good blanks. Are they Chedeville? This one has some interior scratchies from careless swabbing, but looks very usable. That interesting ligature is a Brillhart?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-04-05 14:54
> Solution to tarnish from the sulfur in hard-rubber mouthpieces? Crystal or
> wood mouthpieces.
...or plastic/acrylic models.
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-05 15:15
"When I got it home and could inspect it at leisure, I saw that the Silva Bet's bell has been broken off and reattached. It's not very noticeable from the outside, but on the inside it's a very rough seam with up to a millimeter discrepancy between body-bore and bell-bore."
Can you post photos of this 'repair'?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-04-05 18:17
always expect the worse case scenario when buying anything used. thats the strategy to really enjoying purchases off that auction site. If you expect everything to be immaculate, then theres always buyers remorse.
brillhart ligs have been sold in the ball park of $250. my professional musician friend showed me that there is a uniqueness about the ligature that commands the price. he compared the super revelation and the brillhart and also the bonade and found that the brillhart had more control and evenness in addition to good projection quality. the bonade is a little too flexible for both our tastes.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: susieray
Date: 2008-04-05 18:29
I sold a Brilhart ligature just like that one for $411 a couple of years ago.
![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-04-05 18:37
Quite right about plastic or acrylic mouthpieces, Ben --- but keep in mind that the vast majority of these (in saxophone versions as well) are molded, and poorly so at that --- requiring a considerable amount of interior rework in order to play well. That's why I didn't include them as viable alternatives to hard-rubber mouthpieces for clarinetists. In contrast, crystal or wood clarinet mouthpieces are much more likely to need no work, or refacing only, to play acceptably well.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-04-05 20:22
What's a plastic mouthpiece against a master with file and caliper, David? :-)
--
Ben
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